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Brexit

Westminstenders: Silly Season

988 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/09/2019 07:03

It's that time of year again when politicians seem to completely lose their marbles in order to impress the faithful. And it is beginning to feel like conference season is increasingly an exercise in religious ferver to the party rather than considering what's in the best interests of the whole country.

Labour have got off to a good start before their conference opens, by almost starting complete melt down.

The Tories have promised to break from convention and try and over shadow the others, so that's something to look forward to.

And early this week we have the supreme Court ruling which could, regardless of which direction it swings, have massive ramifications for our democracy.

Big week ahead.

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Emilyontmoor · 23/09/2019 00:48

"More populism"
Ridiculous statement

Erm no. Do you understand how the current social care system works? Every old person is already entitled to a care assessment to determine what level of support they need, Social services might get a bad press but actually they are on the whole good at linking old people to a whole network of professional services that can make old people lives easier and give them dignity, not just meals and caters but things like the Occupational Therapists who will fit equipment like toilet risers and rails . The whole system is geared to helping people to keep their independence if they want it rather than move them to a home, not least because homes are expensive, very expensive. The issue is not that people cannot stay in their homes and live independent lives for want of that care, it is that that care more often than not has to be paid for out of savings, and if it involves moving to a home, the sale of your home. If you have the assets you will already get the care labour are promising, and if you haven’t you will almost certainly be getting it for free already. www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/financial-assessment/

The real issue is that the cost of care the Councils are able to meet for those without assets is not consistent with the actual cost particularly if those needs are more complex. Councils are trying to work to budgets of £350 per week when in some places a privately funded care home place is more like £1500. In some cases the care homes, especially if they are non profit (and you really want to be in a non profit home which is focused on their residents not profit) they cross subsidise but homes that provide places for non self funding residents are going out of business. There is a shortage of places and also an incentive for cash strapped Councils to keep people in their homes even if that is a safeguarding issue and that persons needs are not being met even though Councils have a statutory duty to ensure people are safe in their homes even if they are mentally competent and refuse help. That is why orthopaedic wards are clogged with dementia patients who have fallen. None of the old ladies I met during my daughters hospital stay were self evidently mentally / physically competent enough to be living at home safely, they had fallen out of bed, walked into doors, tripped and fallen and some of them were extremely distressed because they didn’t know where they were. They all went home. It is a huge burden on an already struggling NHS.

The whole “dementia tax” issue of the last election was a prize bit of spin. What was proposed was actually going to raise the threshold of savings that you could have before you had to pay for your care. It was an attempt to put together a workable solution to a growing issue, it is just the majority of voters had no idea that dementia care is already paid for from peoples assets.

So caring for the complex needs of an aging population is very expensive so society faces an issue about how it gets paid for. Either we increase taxes on the already financially disadvantaged working population to pay for free care for all but no political party is going to commit to that, not even the Conservatives whose voter base they are 🤔 or people pay for it, or a mixture of both.

Personally I think people should let loose of the idea that they inherit wealth, I had absolutely no problem with my FIL’s home being sold to pay for him to be secure and given dignity as the dementia took hold, the home even took him back when the NHS gave up on him, and gave him a more peaceful and dignified death than he would ever have had on an NHS ward. There is no price on that. I have no problem in not passing my wealth to my children and seeing it either contribute to my care or wider society but my close friend who is a Monentum supporter can not cope with that idea, though she does appreciate the irony.

It is a huge and difficult problem and there is no easy solution, certainly not one that is palatable to the electorate. Promising free help to get dressed and fed is just populist window dressing. It is exactly the same as Boris promising more money for Police or the NHS, the same disconnect with the complexity of the reality.

tobee · 23/09/2019 01:07

That's interesting Emily. My parents have always said they intended to spend their money (life long socialists if that's relevant) on living their lives which my sister and I are happy and relaxed about. Any residual money and the money from sale of their house would go on care, assuming they need it.

The only thing that springs to mind with what you say is that there will still always be people who can pay for their care etc in old age and still have plenty of money to leave to their children the Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Moggs of this world.

As I say, it springs to mind; rather than I definitely think that it's a good or bad thing to "let loose of the idea" of inherited wealth. Lots and lots of people think it's a natural human instinct to want to leave money to their children. Which I do think is rubbish. It's grown up as a desire as society has developed of time.

Emilyontmoor · 23/09/2019 01:17

It is also a growing issue, the baby boomers benefitted from the opportunities they had in a time of growing prosperity / a welfare state that their parents did not have so they have more wealth concentrated in that generation than ever before. There have always been the minority that inherited wealth but now it is probably a majority who feel their parents wealth should flow to them, and it is an inheritance worth having?

NoWordForFluffy · 23/09/2019 05:42

You're a solicitor / barrister too, @Arborea?

I think we've all had moments in Court we wish to forget! 🙈😂 I've never had one in front of a law lord though, so you've got one up on me!

Random18 · 23/09/2019 06:47

Emily you may not car about inheritance. And I feel the same.

But what about parents? I know mine are desperate that their children will inherit the assets they have worked so hard for.

Even if it sends one of them to the grave looking after the other.

kingsassassin · 23/09/2019 06:58

That's where it gets knitted up with high house prices doesn't it? If the only way a lot of 20-30 somethings are going to ever be able to buy a house and start a family is following an inheritance, their parents and grandparents will be trying incredibly hard to keep some inheritance for them even at costs to their own health and well-being.

AutumnCrow · 23/09/2019 07:02

Any rumours on when the Supreme Court will pronounce? Will the media be advised in advance?

Myriade · 23/09/2019 07:03

FWIW my parents will be able to pay for their care AND leave me a substantial amount of money.
They are not the JRM type. They are both from lower middle class background but they have worked their socks off. And they took risk (such as going overseas) to be able to do so as well as spending their life being careful and slowly building up their pot (that means very few holidays, my mum made her own clothes until I left for Uni etc etc)

My mum is the first person to say that inherited wealth is an issue and contributes to inequalities etc... but she would be dammed if what they had put so much effort into building was just given away to the State ‘for the greater good’. Not when the greater good also means much less opportunities for her child and dgc because the system is skewed and even MC people will struggle to build anything. (And thats even wo Talking about the fact I am chronically ill so can’t work full time etc..l but will never get any support from the state).

Basically what I am saying is that there isn't one side people who will not leave anything to their dcs and the very wealthy. You have plenty of people who created wealth for themselves with no help. Is that fair to take that away from them??

Myriade · 23/09/2019 07:06

And coming back to the issue of house prices, if the only way for the 20~30yo to have a house is inheritance and you take that away, what you get is a system where only the richer people will be able to afford a house, increasing inequalities even more.

Certainly, that’s not the way forward??

HesterThrale · 23/09/2019 07:20

Exactly kingsassassin and myriade. Many young people need to live in London (or other big cities) because that’s where the jobs in their field are. And when you find that a 2-bed flat can cost £400,000 or £500,000 in a just-about-ok centrallish area, I think you’re looking at prices that even most Banks of Mum & Dad can’t help much with.

RedToothBrush · 23/09/2019 07:28

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Thomas Cook’s bosses should be personally held to account for leaving holidaymakers stranded, Boris Johnson insists

I have many words to say about Johnson and personal responsibility....

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RedToothBrush · 23/09/2019 07:31

The Secret Barrister @barristersecret
Tomorrow, nearly a third of Crown Courts will sit empty.

Not for want of judges - many full-time salaried judges will be paid to sit twiddling their thumbs at home.

But because the government won't pay to keep the courts open. Meanwhile, trials are being listed for Summer 2020.

When the government boasts that it intends to be "tough on crime", it should be asked, repeatedly, why it is happy to let victims and those accused of serious violent and sexual offences wait for years on end for their cases to come to trial.

Any fool can tell a simpering tabloid that they support "tougher prison sentences". That does absolutely nothing to help those stuck in our broken criminal justice system, who have waited years for the police to investigate and then years for the courts to list their trials.

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/09/2019 07:31

I won't be inheriting from my parents (personal reasons). That doesn't make me sad for me, but it does make me very sad for dd who is collateral damage in this. Our house is pretty small, but will be paid off in the next few years. That feels like a privilege nowadays. I'll be doing my damnedest to keep hold of that equity, so that dd has something from us.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/09/2019 07:32

I had no idea about Crown Courts sitting empty.

Songsofexperience · 23/09/2019 07:32

I'm with you myriade, very similar background and approach for my parents.
Scrapping inheritance amounts to scrapping individual wealth itself. Good luck with that. Even countries that are much more traditionally on the left haven't managed that. I think the system definitely needs readjusting but this isn't the way.

bellinisurge · 23/09/2019 07:33

As you sew, so shall you reap. Is what I think about Johnson going on about personal responsibility.

flouncyfanny · 23/09/2019 07:33

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flouncyfanny · 23/09/2019 07:37

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Bearbehind · 23/09/2019 07:40

but it was his Government that didn't bail out TC

Why would the government bail TC out? It would be throwing good money after bad. Anyone who’s heard about their financial troubles wouldn’t be booking with them so it would just delay the inevitable, at great cost

Emilyontmoor · 23/09/2019 07:40

Myriade That is exactly my point, that it is no longer the minority elite who will inherit wealth, the opportunities that the baby boomers had including being able to buy their own homes in greater numbers than ever before mean that inheritance may well be an issue for the majority?

However it is going to be a source of increasing inequality if only those who inherit wealth can get on the property ladder, and those who don’t inherit wealth also face a higher tax burden because the government opt to do away with the requirement to self fund social care if you have assets . As I say society faces hard choices.

There is also the issue of the statutory duty of social services to ensure old people are safe in their homes regardless of mental capacity and their own wishes. There is a distrust of social services and a widespread belief as manifested by Big Choc Frenzy that they are somehow engaged on a project to deprive people of independence. It is leading old people to hide their needs and creating safeguarding issues. I know this only too well because PILs did hide the extent of FILs needs. The safeguarding issue should have been raised when he fell and MIL did not phone the doctors for 12 hours because she was terrified they would both end up in a home and the house sold beneath them. In fact if the correct red flags had been raised and it had been recognised that she was not coping and he had had his needs met at a much earlier stage he would have had a better quality of life for longer, instead of ending up at risk deprived of care and underweight, and she would have lived on for much longer in her own home.

As I say no easy answers and certainly offering free help with dressing and food is not tackling those big issues.

As I say there are no easy answers

RedToothBrush · 23/09/2019 07:42

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-7492181/amp/Hedge-funds-cash-crisis-Thomas-Cook-10-shares-shorted.html?__twitter_impression=true
Hedge funds cash in on the crisis at Thomas Cook as over 10% of its shares are 'shorted'

This is where I get disgusted.

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RedToothBrush · 23/09/2019 07:45

Baby boomers are net benefiters from the welfare system. Gen Y are net contributors. And that's calculated on lifetime.

This is why we have a problem and it doesn't take a genius to work out where the money currently is.

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flouncyfanny · 23/09/2019 07:49

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mathanxiety · 23/09/2019 07:54

pmk/

Bearbehind · 23/09/2019 07:55

flouncy I don’t understand how the full quote makes any difference?