Westminstenders: Constitutional History

[RedToothBrush]

The Supreme Court case continues
(ruling possible Friday but likely Monday)

The new NI proposal is bollocks and Johnson didn't get why until it was discussed in Europe.

There was a press conference in Luxembourg which looks good for Johnson.

Johnsons approval ratings are up.

And we are making no obvious progress to anything but no deal...

And then you have Pannick. Or Attenborough. Genuinely know what they're talking about, skilled enough to convey it clearly to their audience.

This is always my secret test of whether someone knows WTF they're talking about when covering a complex topic at work: could they explain it to a 10 year old?

If yes - then they actually know what they're talking about

If no - they're just parroting what someone else said and throwing in big words hoping to sound intelligent enough that no-one notices

Well, if Robert Graves is to be believed in I Claudius, the Empress Livia was particularly anxious to be deified so that she wasn't in hell for an eternity paying for her crimes.

Perhaps bozo has something similar in mind. He needs all the help he can get....

DGR
I am occasional (rather than lapsed) and certainly no authority, but my understanding of RC, and Christianity, in general, is that you don't try to cherry-pick the easy bits, but try to emulate Christ in your earthly life.
(raised on Thomas a Kempis, and all that)

Crikey can BXP sink any lower, that is truly horrendous behaviour I’m actually sickened by such an act.

Crikey can BXP sink any lower, that is truly horrendous behaviour I’m actually sickened by such an act.

I wonder what their conference will do for their polling ... it's possible that the rush for an early election was for Boris to try and wave BXP as some sort of threat to cajole wavering Tory voters back to the fold ? Which won't work if they reveal themselves to be just another MRLP des nos jours

I don't know if I missed it on the previous thread which I didn't get chance to read....did someone cover the many BXP followers throwing their toys out of the pram and supposedly 'leaving' the BXP because one of the BXP MEPs called some of them racist on Twitter re: their comments on a fundraiser he shared?

Meanwhile:

In the event of Brexit, the UK rushing to do a seedy trade deal with Brazil could mean no deal with the EU (if they want to discourage the rape of the rainforests).

If SC decide parliaments prorogation is unlawful next week, it means Tory MPs might have to miss conference to attend parliament.

Have I missed anything ?

Not had time to catch up but i'm interested in the slowing of construction/Kier; wasn't there an ardent Leaver a year ago banging on about her husband being "busier than ever"

Bed time for dd then catch up can commence!

£245 million is a bad loss even for a firm the size of Kier
Hence the redundancies

wasn't there an ardent Leaver a year ago banging on about her husband being "busier than ever"

We've also had someone on the threads today saying how the Poles and Romanians undercut them on building sites, so her DH can't get work.

NI faces new organised crime challenges in no-deal Brexit – report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ni-faces-new-organised-crime-challenges-in-no-deal-brexit-report-1.4021413?

There is a “heightened risk” that organised crime will expand into new sectors and fuel further criminality after Brexit,
the North’s Organised Crime Task Forcee^ has warned.

In its annual report, which is published this morning, the body warns of a “wider risk to the culture of lawfulness” in a no-deal scenario.

It said any changes to the terms of trade were likely to lead to an increase in cross-Border smuggling, tariff evasion and VAT fraud by organised criminals.

Re JRM quote. (Sorry, the thread's probably well moved on now. Slow these days)

It's from Alexander Pope's "An Essay on Criticism" written about 1700s. Also famous for such lines as " Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread" and " A little learning (knowledge) is a dangerous thing" and others.

" To err is Human, to forgive Divine."
So, it's human to make mistakes. To forgive, brings God's Grace upon the Forgiver and brings them closer to God.

I think JRM meant that: those they threw out of the Party, should be forgiven their errors by the PM. BJ would be doing so much forgiving, that he would almost be a Divine being himself. This, due to drawing down so much of God's Grace upon his own (BJ's) saintly head, and drawing BJ so very close to God. Heavenly points mean prizes.

Useful, ime, if you believe in the afterlife, and are contemplating being dead in a ditch. M'lady.

I think that excerpt from the Kuper FT article was spot on, kingsassassin.

For 'Luxembourg' insert 'Ireland' and you can understand just about everything that is glaringly irrational about the approach to the Backstop.

I strongly suspect a lot of the brexit party supporters will not be in the least bit bothered by their abstination.

Why, one wonders, if their aim is (presumably) to secure a deal in Parliament are the talking to Michel Barnier? The only conclusion that I can draw is that they are actively reinforcing the EUs determination to not move an inch in the direction of the Government.

Or perhaps making sure that any proposal or policy of Labour's would be aligned with what would fly in Brussels?

Responsible politicians attempt to keep policy in the realm of the possible.

Just musing here, but if the Supreme Court does rule Johnson's prorogation to be illegal, what can they actually do about it?

Secondly, if he does unprerogue and then ask HMQ again to close down, could she refuse this time as it's potentially illegal? I think I recall on a previous thread that she can't ignore advice but may refuse an illegal act as she would be bound by the law.

RTB A 'non-paper' is perhaps a beer mat?

LouiseCollins
The point about projection and weakness is interesting. In relative global terms I don't think the UK is weak. Sure, we don't have the economic or other types of power that the largest economies have but we aren't tiny either.
Kuper's point is that the narrative of empire, 'Brittania rules the waves', etc., makes British people more vulnerable than others to fears arising from relative weakness. That is weakness to previous imperial strength, and perceived weakness when contrasted to the strength of the EU in economic and political terms. The imperial narrative along with the 'island fortress' narrative also contributes to the inability to understand that the UK had a strong voice in the EU and could have developed that. There are harmful narratives that have got in the way of the idea of 'playing well with others'.

The Kuper article is about the power of narrative and the inability to grasp and work with fact.

"The only conclusion that I can draw is that they are actively reinforcing the EUs determination to not move an inch in the direction of the Government."

The EU moving a little way won't help BJ;
To satisfy Tory demands, the EU would have to make concessions that would destroy them

He demands that the backstop be dropped and the EU just "trust the UK" that something can be figured out in the next couple of years

I've also read that the govt also crossed out most of the WA clauses requiring "level playing field conditions" with the EU

Even if Labour and the entire HoC vote to support the govt position, the EU won't commit suicide

Mathanxiety the article kings referenced is behind a paywall so I haven’t read it sorry, I was responding to the comment that was quoted.

You clearly have your views of this whole situation and I have my own, as do we all.

If the UK can resolve the border issue over the next 2 years, the backstop wouldn't come into effect.

Insofar as the credit (most of the time) that should accrue to Britain for the manner in which she gave up her "empire" I agree.
LouiseCollins

What??

The British Empire was not 'given up'.

It was forcibly dismantled over the course of the twentieth century by the former imperial subjects by means of bullets and bloodshed, in the teeth of determined opposition from Westminster, beginning with Ireland.
(And maybe the current form of the UK itself will end with more bullets and bloodshed in Ireland.)

Those parts of the empire that did not engage in a fight to the death were given up under duress because of Roosevelt's and Truman's own imperial ambitions and the UK's absolute weakness when faced with the power of the US in the aftermath of WW2. The creation of the state of Israel and the Suez crisis are just two examples of the US asserting its hegemony and reminding the UK of its weakness.

If your belief in the myth of a lightbulb moment and enlightened uncoupling of empire is shared by many other Brits then no wonder the referendum went the way it did, and no wonder the anti-EU narrative proved so durable once the post industrial era dawned in the UK.

If the UK can resolve the border issue over the next 2 years, the backstop wouldn't come into effect

Quite. The backstop only comes into play if the border issue can't be resolved. If the Government are so confident they can resolve the border issue, then they won't ever need the backstop so they shouldn't be worried about it.

Unless they aren't confident they can resolve the issue.

I wonder how many times that's been pointed out by the EU negotiators?

I fail to see how not moving at all is more helpful than moving a bit BigChoc

Just watched the Cameron programme on the BBC and the story is remarkably similar, no movement. His “renegotiation” pre-referendum was deeply flawed and resulted an almost complete failure.

And it was never a case of a so-called "empire".

The empire was comprehensively garrisoned, policed, and dotted with prisons, and it was used as a source of the raw materials that built the wealth of the British ruling class and the military and naval strength that defended it for centuries.

It existed in law and in political and economic reality, and millions of soldiers, sailors and civil servants spent their lives in service of it.

I completely acknowledge that UK print media in particular may have a majority with a particular "anti" line to stick to buy why must the EU be so keen to acquire more and more power?

You type your statement acknowledging press bias, but then you proceed with the question...

LouiseCollins, could it be that you have fallen victim to a certain 'anti EU' line?

Your seem to see the EU as an entity distinct from its membership. This is a very common and very fundamental Brexiteer mistake.