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Brexit

Westminstenders: Constitutional History

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2019 14:57

The Supreme Court case continues
(ruling possible Friday but likely Monday)

The new NI proposal is bollocks and Johnson didn't get why until it was discussed in Europe.

There was a press conference in Luxembourg which looks good for Johnson.

Johnsons approval ratings are up.

And we are making no obvious progress to anything but no deal...

OP posts:
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Inniu · 19/09/2019 09:22

Bizarrely on a late night current affairs chat show last night they were saying North Sea and I just assumed that as it was NI it was just one of those Schrödinger’s cat situation where everything is 2 things at once if the language keeps everyone happy........ but maybe the commentators were just tired and misspoke.

As an aside Schrodinger lived in Ireland for a while as incidentally did the Prime Minister of Luxembourg.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2019 09:24

If Private Eye is to be believed, she wasn't misled at all. She knew the real reasons for prorogation and was on board with pretending it was about a Queen's Speech. Even suggests she helped come up with the idea.

Just as interesting is this weeks Private Eye which details the Blond Bombshells Balmoral Break last week, noting the Boris had clearly pissed Brenda off (apparently when she tells you not to touch the dogs because they don't like it, it's not a challenge ....). The most telling bit was that Boris doesn't carry change and thus did not tip the staff as is customary. Which suggests that for all his privilege, Boris is a little bit new money oik. I suspect JRM would be the same. Just no breeding

mathanxiety · 19/09/2019 09:32

Dublin City University has a Brexit Institute...
dcubrexitinstitute.eu/

Peregrina · 19/09/2019 09:47

Cheques in the North Sea? Is this to pay off the Icelandic fisherpeoples??

This displays a Raab sense of Geography! Grin The Icelanders are in the North Atlantic. Perhaps this is to buy out those Dutch boats that Westminster sold our fishing quotas too, whilst conveniently blaming the EU.

bellinisurge · 19/09/2019 09:52

How about checks in the Tasman Sea? Or the Bay of Biscay? Or the Caribbean? 😂😂

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/09/2019 10:11

One of the many things that puzzle me about BJ is how he can write idiotic watermelon smile and letter box comments whilst being proud of his Turkish ancestry and have been married to someone whose mother is from India.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2019 10:15

One of the many things that puzzle me about BJ is how he can write idiotic watermelon smile and letter box comments whilst being proud of his Turkish ancestry and have been married to someone whose mother is from India.

Well one of them can't be true ...

ListeningQuietly · 19/09/2019 10:15

Chazs
Because he is a journalist who will write anything to get paid.
Hence why he wrote articles for both outcomes of the referendum so the Telegraph could print one or the other.
He does not give a stuff about any issue at all
he just wants to be in charge and adored.

His very expensive education has not made him intelligent.

Poor kids with dysfunctional parents get taken into care.
Rich kids with dysfunctional parents get nannies and boarding school.

kingsassassin · 19/09/2019 10:33

I think this has posted before - sorry if so - but a quote from last Saturday's Janice Turner article about the Johnsons...

"I’ve noted, observing families as a fascinated only child, that siblings with flaky parents, especially from broken homes, are the most loyal to each other. The Miliband brothers sought the approval of their warm, rock-solid parents, competing to be true heir to the radicalism of their Marxist father, Ralph. Ed Miliband, who I followed during the 2015 election, is far more mischievous than you might expect. While David has the cool smoothness of one who expects to be in charge, Ed is the classic younger brother scuttling the rules of birth order which have governed dynasties from royal princes to Kennedys.

The Johnsons, however, are forged by a dark childhood full of infidelity, mental illness, emotional cruelty and borderline neglect. At a retrospective of the underrated artist Charlotte Johnson Wahl, Boris and Jo’s mother, I was astounded by works made while she was treated at the Maudsley Hospital for depression. She depicts herself in a treetop, her tiny, blond children crying at the bottom, arms out, trying to reach her, as her unfaithful husband Stanley looks impotently on."

Alsohuman · 19/09/2019 10:34

Of course his expensive education hasn’t made him intelligent. To quote my mum “You can’t buy brains”.

JeSuisPoulet · 19/09/2019 10:37

Queen's apparent attitude towards him must be a blow. I think the penny might be dropping that he is not quite as loved as he expected to be having flip-flopped on his opinions to sell papers and get power.

Heard the end of Humphries (fitting turn of phrase) on R4. His take that the BBC is more important now than ever for democracy set my teeth on edge a bit but that is possibly because I've heard him being very snotty and disdainful to many experts trying to point out issues with backstop/NI on his programme, without any real thinking behind his opinionated interviews.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2019 10:43

Heard the end of Humphries (fitting turn of phrase) on R4. His take that the BBC is more important now than ever for democracy set my teeth on edge a bit but that is possibly because I've heard him being very snotty and disdainful to many experts trying to point out issues with backstop/NI on his programme, without any real thinking behind his opinionated interviews.

I gave up on BBC radio thanks to JH tearing into Tony Blair a couple of years ago, after giving Farage free reign to spout bollocks for 3 minutes. If Farage had faced the same ferocious level of questioning for a second, we wouldn't be here now.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2019 10:43

Cameron ws grossly irresponsible and gambled on the referendum to "fix" his party

He lost his gamble and divided the country
Divided his party worse than ever, too

All you can say about him is that he didn't mean all this damage to the country
For Cummings, the damage is a feature, not a bug: step 1 of the MasterPlan
and BJ is too lazy to do anything but what Cummings tells him

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2019 10:51

Boris Johnson Has Finally Sent The EU Some Ideas In Writing On How To Solve The Brexit Mess

"initial thoughts" are so very far from formal negotiations, then agreeing a legally binding text, which would have to be prepared for the UK & all 27 govts to sign and for the EP to pass

This is more like the start of a 2-year process, resetting A50

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/albertonardelli/boris-johnson-brexit-plans-submitted?

The text sets out some of the UK’s initial thoughts on how to solve the so-called backstop issue, sources told BuzzFeed News.
.......
while the UK government has indicated a willingness to consider a single regulatory regime north and south of the Irish border for food and agriculture as well as sanitary and phytosanitary measures (known as SPS),

the EU and the 27 governments have been clear that this proposal alone would not meet all the requirements of the backstop:
keeping the border in Ireland open in all circumstances and protecting the all-Ireland economy and the integrity of the single market.

The 27 have been adamant that any alternative to the backstop must achieve all these same effects.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2019 10:55

BJ might use this as an excuse to ask for an extension, because "initial thoughts" are so far away from anything to sign

BUT extension would be v damaging politically to him - Farage and some in the ERG would be out for his blood

DGRossetti · 19/09/2019 10:57

Boris Johnson Has Finally Sent The EU Some Ideas In Writing On How To Solve The Brexit Mess

made worse by needing to maintain the Boris Big Bollocks act for home consumption whilst simultaneously having to play the "nasty EU bullying us" card ...

Has "The EU will blink" been quietly dismissed ?

JeSuisPoulet · 19/09/2019 11:01

Yes DGR - I avoid him generally after hearing that and other interviews, particularly when he talks over the women he invites on as if they are just there for numbers rather than their field of expertise. No tears shed here but a vague niggle about who they will replace him with...

Just had a google on BoZo's mother who has parkinsons. She does amazing artwork. I suspect her and Mrs Cummings get along on that front at least, what with her being a painter too. I bet they've had some interesting chats! I do feel terribly sorry for her that her 'problem child' has divided her family and seemingly taken after her ex-husband so much. However I am sure she personally won't face med or nurse shortages in the next few months Hmm

DGRossetti · 19/09/2019 11:02

BUT extension would be v damaging politically to him - Farage and some in the ERG would be out for his blood

So ?

I don't think Boris owes the ERG more than he owes Boris. And with each passing day, I think Faragemania has dimmed.

Anyhow, the fact that UK press is happy to just accept that negotiation have just started - after over 3 years - speaks volumes.

Peregrina · 19/09/2019 11:06

while the UK government has indicated a willingness to consider a single regulatory regime north and south of the Irish border for food and agriculture as well as sanitary and phytosanitary measures (known as SPS),

Do I detect a potential 'fudge' here? Keep SPS for the whole island of Ireland, but have the Customs checks in Wales and Scotland for the other necessary checks? Sort of half in, half out? I will put this on the Predictions thread because I think it could be possible.

bellinisurge · 19/09/2019 11:12

Sounds like border in the sea, to me.

prettybird · 19/09/2019 11:20

But wasn't that what Juncker et al told BJ-Cummings in no uncertain terms earlier this week: that just dealing with the SPS issues with a "border in the Irish Sea" doesn't solve the border issue and take away the need for a backstop Confused This was apparently shocking news to BJ Confused - who, as per usual, hadn't done his homework properly and assumed a fudge would do Hmm

The SPS "Irish Sea border" assumes that Ireland only trades in agriculture/livestock and foodstuffs Confused. It may come as a surprise to some in WM but Ireland's economy has moved on since it was being ruled by the UK Grin

kingsassassin · 19/09/2019 11:22

Interesting piece in the FT on exceptionalism and "too much safety" which I think is free to read today;
www.ft.com/content/7c46137c-d9a2-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

I remember reading someone who had been at the UN talking about Chile and the Pinochet coup in 1973 and saying from that point on, the UN took the view that no country was immune from becoming a basket case, (I paraphrase!).

I know a number of leavers who voted for reasons I disagree with, but respect their right to hold. I still find it very difficult to engage at all with people who voted to see what happens, or for a bit of excitement.

JeSuisPoulet · 19/09/2019 11:23

I see the BBC Sounds app is in the news www.theguardian.com/media/2019/sep/19/bbc-ignoring-its-audience-over-iplayer-app-removal

“The BBC’s decision on the iPlayer radio and Sounds apps will leave hundreds of thousands without access to its services. Sadly, the BBC has sided with the technology industry and ignored its own audience.”

BBC is, like The Sun, aiming to stagger it's users on different platforms IMO. I've noticed for a while R4 news will be ever so very slightly more remain (in that it actually mentions details in news of backstop for eg) compared to R2 where Jeremy Vine yesterday kept saying "maybe Remainers are angry because they lost?" when confronted with leavers telling him how their friendships have broken up as a result of the ref. At no point while I was listening did anyone come and explain what they were saying when the remainer in question decided to give them the heave-ho as a friend my own experience was burning a hole in my pocket here and they all feigned ignorance. News on R2 leads with spin stories often.

I think we are reaching a point where only the wealthy will be able to access actual debate. Maybe, if I am feeling generous, this is to stop complaints. More likely IMO is that they are trying to be all things to all people and have forgone their independent stance for clicks and money from tech firms/US.

kingsassassin · 19/09/2019 11:26

Sorry - a comment from the Simon Kuper article in the FT which I thought was quite powerful:

"A saddening piece, not least because the educated classes should remember and try to avoid the risks of history as experienced by others. Whether the slow decline of a Portugal, which yet retains self-respect, or the collapse of a less deeply rooted Argentina, the fact is that powerful countries do decay, and the UK is decaying.

The EU's perceived scale and power (though exercised in limited ways, in reality) is probably cause, manifestation and the projection of fears that arise when the self-certainty and security of being at heart of the world's greatest empire gives way to the recognition, in globalised world, that we are no longer protected as were, even in the aftermath of WWII, by our inherited strengths.

The EU 'causes' the fears, because we feel threatened, rather than supported by the growth of the EU's political power; it manifests the fears through the playing out in the press of the narrative of EU dominance and in parliament through the 'vassalage' debate; and it is a projection of these now-focused fears because its power so reveals nakedly the post-imperial weaknesses of the UK: that's why so much of the Brexit narrative is built around betrayal, ambush, lack of respect and themes that, if we were an imperial power, would once have brought about the despatch of a gunship, or a battalion of Scots Guards.

How dare Luxembourg 'ambush' our PM?!

The total lack of respect for facts, and the avid embrace of the betrayal narrative shows how dangerous the situation has become.

Yet the underlying tigger for the expression of these frustrations through the Brexit vote was probably economic. Economic insecurity and stagnant incomes; the gig economy, the abolition of the social safety net and the stench of self-entitled rent-seeking sitting on top of the whole putrid mess."

JeSuisPoulet · 19/09/2019 11:28

kings sadly the paywall is back up for FT.
Still wondering why they really had it down and remembering that odd YouGov survey which included interest in paid access to it (I put 'other' largely because so many of you post extracts Grin)

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