Westminstenders: Drain The Swamp

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson lost his first vote by 27.

The Commons take control again, and Johnson is now, with his majority gone, is seeking an election.

Whilst the feeling might be one of victory there is a definite sting in the tail.

Johnson has purged the party of 'trouble makers', meaning any replacements after an election are hard liners. And they will be in safe seats. Possibly many of which will be careerists parachuted in.

The party has split. The civil war is over.

Parliament has just lost some of its very best minds in the process. That bodes ill for us all in the long term. The polarisation has just jacked up a level. The centre has fallen even more.

There are no more moderates.

Polling suggests that Johnson won't be blamed for any of this and that's significant.

Take note of this tweet

Douglas Carswell @Douglascarswell
Boris Vs the political Parasites. Guess who wins across suburban Britain?

The optics are not about what you or I are seeing. Nor about what any of the politicial pundits are seeing.

The Democrats and the Media failed to see Trump coming... And this is what now concerns me. His optics are not bad with his core and targets.

Will Johnson be able to have his election?

If yes, I fear the polls look good for Johnson. People want 'Brexit over with' and don't want another extension. They may or may not understand the ramifications of that.

If no, then what? Johnson can do anything with his numbers. Does that mean potentially two governments and the Queen stuck in the middle? Or does he limp on, with no intention of doing anything but take us over the cliff by counting down the clock?

Or something else?

The Brexit Party and Conservatives now seem to have formally united one way or another. They have aligned with current politics alike the divided Opposition parties.

Tonight the penny might have dropped with a few Labour MPs too. They want May's deal to return. Its the only deal there is, in the absence of a Johnson plan and a Labour / Opposition plan. Too little too late...

This isn't going away as an issue either. Stoking up anger against the rebel alliance is a long term project for the fascist right.

Is tonight’s result a victory? Yes, but my fear is its potential to be a Pyrrhic Victory.

The battle today may have been won, but Johnson still looks set to win...

Just checked the FB feed of a couple of Brexiter friends (I have them snoozed)
MPs = "the liberal elite"
BozoCum = fighting for the people

Worries about after No Deal:

• The bitterness & hate towards the EU, when they stick to the main WA terms - backstop, exit bill, expat rights - as preconditions to trade talks
  Basically having to accept the WA, after a painful economic crash and without any benefits of transition
  Or maybe never giving in, so no EU trade deal. Ever.

• Obviously the rolling out of all the favourite hard right Tory policies, to transform the country over a full 5-year term.
  permanently, e.g.
  the NHS once destroyed, could never be recreated
  lower standard US meat etc throughout our food chain - and punitive clauses to end any US deal - means great difficulty even if a large majority want to rejoin the EU in 10 or 20 years.

I'm so sorry hazard

I have no idea Myriade I think it probably depends a lot on the type of medicine?
My dad has long term liver problems and takes a handful of different medicines a day and has had no problems.

Or maybe it's just a richer NHS trust than others? I never got prescribed any anti-sickness (pg) tablets where I was living before, but here I've got them with no problems, including stronger (more expensive ones) when the first lot made me drowsy.
I'm equal parts grateful to the NHS and angry at the way its being dismantled.

My worries too, BigChoc.

For what it's worth: financial markets worry less about Corbyn than Brexit.

However, that doesn't seem to chime with Conservatives.

And I don't see Labour amplifying that message any time soon in the current set-up. 🤷‍♀️

Just wanted to say that I agree it is unhelpful to label groups of people as "dark" or "selfish" but I also agree with @Songsofexperience clarifying post - these past few weeks I have seen a couple of old friends getting wholeheartedly on the [Bozo - strong man - decisiveness - supporting prorogation - No Deal strong negotiating hand] seduction train. As we are regularly exhorted that No Dealers understand what they want I must conclude that my friends are knowingly embracing far right authoritarianism.

Hazardtired I'm so sorry. Have you tried alldaychemist.com? If you PM me maybe you could send me a prescription and I could get it for you in Ireland and post it to you? Is that kind of thing possible?

Darkendof UK - I so agree with you !

"The rot starts at the top, blame the people abusing the information streams rather than the poor sods at the bottom who have no other choices. And actually the rot started years ago when the cost of living and acquiring assets in this country went sky high and wages started to drop."

"mainstream conservatives used the military to maintain control (Spain, Greece)."

Those were fascist military governments, dictatorships

They certainly didn't escape fascism

Corbyn doing well in the House at the moment .BJ blustering .

Listening to PMQ.

I think if I hear the word 'frit' once more today I may scream.

Hazard so sorry to hear your news and hugs.

I’m sure you have thought of this already but is there any chance NHS Scotland have different supply chains for the medicine you need?

I seem to vaguely recall that the average level of educational attainment (as in the highest qualifications achieved, in particular the proportion of degrees) in Scotland is historically higher than in England - but I don't have any citation

Scotland did have 4 Unis (the so-called "Ancients") for a long period during which England only had 2

Certainly Scotland has traditionally valued education

....maybe that's why it voted Remain

Corbyn doing well in the House at the moment .BJ blustering .

Although it’s still a bit like listening to a moribund sheep savaging a dead sheep.

But a big cheer for Ian Blackford

Blimey, this is a really shit PMQs performance by Johnson. Gabble, bluster, deflection, and empty slogans. I hope the people manipulating him have got more of a clue.

That's really rotten Hazard.

I barely know what to say about any of it today other than what is this country coming to.

Hazard I'm sorry you have to do this, but you will sort it. By the powers of Mumsnet hopefully someone who lives overseas can help?

What of all those living alone who aren't IT savvy though? I want people like JRM to actually see what is going on and be forced to help out personally.

"However this is also why there is absolutely no logic for a Lexiter to vote Corbyn. As pp are oft tended to comment EU membership is a one-off but UK elections come and go. So by that logic vote Tory to neutralise Bxt Party, deliver Brexit and make them live with 5 years of consequences and then get a Labour majority for a socialist agenda."

howabout The problem with that strategy is that in 5 years the Tories can destroy ppst-WW2 institutions like the NHS, can privatise all remaining UK assets & public services

AND especially if sold off to US companies, Labour will never be able to get them back, because the US would destroy the UK with sanctions - remember we'd be just an isolated country, not part of the EU economic super power

I don't understand how anyone on the left can think the EU worse than the destruction of everything built since WW2

You are also assuming that the Tories would placidly play fair and stand down after 5 years
At the very least, expect massive gerrymandering, ID & residence rules & checks to exclude those likely to vote Labour,
e.g. younger, poorer people and BME

You are making the same mistake as Hindenburg et al in the 1930s:
you can't use fascists - they use you and then dump you

Johnson has just said he wants an election

I think if I hear the word 'frit' once more today I may scream.

For me it's the word "dither".

There will naturally be differences in London because it is the capital. It is the focus of all political life in Britain, and much of its economic life. People there have direct access to it. The whole machinery of civic involvement is run centrally from London. Elsewhere, local councils do what they're told by central government, or face enquiries about corruption, much like removing the whip. We've been told in a thousand ways for many years that the opinions and economic life of the rest of the country are insignificant. Even what's left of regional government has become distant, run from cities miles away.

London is very distant geographically to much of the rest of the population, in a country with poor transport infrastructure. I looked up how much it would cost to get down for the people's vote march - it was over £100. Vice versa it's a well known joke that Londoners have no idea of the geography beyond Watford. Many people do not have that money going spare for the luxury of political campaigning. We are therefore pretty effectively disenfranchised. The Scots are very vocal about this, but they are not alone in thinking it, merely unified in an identity that can say it.

Everyone is quite right to resist simple explanations, but these are the factors I know.

BCF I agree with your last post.

Once of the EU with No Deal, there will be some massive issue with the Irish border etc... TM SIGNED an agreement with the EU in 2017 that was supposed to be the first step in the WA and finding and agreement.
It is a LEGALLY BINDING document that BJ is planning to ignore completely with No Deal.

No way that the EU will then be happy to agree on anything until the UK has actually agreed to follow that agreement.

The BIG danger is ressentement. Ressentment at the consequences if the EU stick to their gums and there is no agreement in sight.
Ressentment at the EU if the UK gives in and agrees to follow them (which means a backstop!).
Last time that we've had a situation like this, it ended up with the WWII.

Again it might be worth looking ta history books and see what they can teach us.

Leicester Uni did some research on educational attainment and political outcomes a couple of years ago:

www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2017/august/greater-access-to-higher-education-could-have-reversed-eu-referendum-result-research-suggests

University of Leicester research suggests that greater access to Higher Education can influence political outcomes.

Greater access to Higher Education could have reversed the result of the 2016 EU referendum, according to new research from the University of Leicester.

Among the key findings of the paper are that:

An increase of about 3% of British adults accessing to higher education in England and Wales could have reversed the referendum result

Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall

12:12 4/9/19

Twitter:

Listening to Johnson’s choice of words, I am becoming more and more convinced he is going to try and withhold royal assent from the a50 extension bill. If so, our politics (and constitution) will explode. #PMQs

Hazard I think a lot of Canadian online pharmacies will sell to you if you've got a prescription.
I'm so sorry you're in this position. It's beyond shocking.