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Brexit

Westminstenders: Drain The Swamp

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 23:23

Johnson lost his first vote by 27.

The Commons take control again, and Johnson is now, with his majority gone, is seeking an election.

Whilst the feeling might be one of victory there is a definite sting in the tail.

Johnson has purged the party of 'trouble makers', meaning any replacements after an election are hard liners. And they will be in safe seats. Possibly many of which will be careerists parachuted in.

The party has split. The civil war is over.

Parliament has just lost some of its very best minds in the process. That bodes ill for us all in the long term. The polarisation has just jacked up a level. The centre has fallen even more.

There are no more moderates.

Polling suggests that Johnson won't be blamed for any of this and that's significant.

Take note of this tweet

Douglas Carswell @Douglascarswell
Boris Vs the political Parasites. Guess who wins across suburban Britain?

The optics are not about what you or I are seeing. Nor about what any of the politicial pundits are seeing.

The Democrats and the Media failed to see Trump coming... And this is what now concerns me. His optics are not bad with his core and targets.

Will Johnson be able to have his election?

If yes, I fear the polls look good for Johnson. People want 'Brexit over with' and don't want another extension. They may or may not understand the ramifications of that.

If no, then what? Johnson can do anything with his numbers. Does that mean potentially two governments and the Queen stuck in the middle? Or does he limp on, with no intention of doing anything but take us over the cliff by counting down the clock?

Or something else?

The Brexit Party and Conservatives now seem to have formally united one way or another. They have aligned with current politics alike the divided Opposition parties.

Tonight the penny might have dropped with a few Labour MPs too. They want May's deal to return. Its the only deal there is, in the absence of a Johnson plan and a Labour / Opposition plan. Too little too late...

This isn't going away as an issue either. Stoking up anger against the rebel alliance is a long term project for the fascist right.

Is tonight’s result a victory? Yes, but my fear is its potential to be a Pyrrhic Victory.

The battle today may have been won, but Johnson still looks set to win...

OP posts:
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OhYouBadBadKitten · 04/09/2019 10:30

ah bollocks.

Grinchly · 04/09/2019 10:30

Agree totally phpolly . You put it far more cogently than I did.

Extremist language feeds into the game.

dontcallmelen · 04/09/2019 10:33

PMK, thank you & the only sensible thing I can think of to contribute is I loved Soap

Ohflippineck · 04/09/2019 10:35

DGRossetti

Be curious to see how the rest of the world picks up on it .... “

Neil MacGregor, “As Others See Us”, radio 4, might be a useful listen. 3 programmes in, its all clearly having a very negative impact on how we are considered by the rest of the world.

howabout · 04/09/2019 10:36

Scottish judgement is in line with Lord Sumption on Newsnight coupleish weeks ago. Would have been very surprised if it had gone the other way especially as a GE is likely to make it academic in any event.

thecatfromjapan · 04/09/2019 10:38

Less with the decline of education, phpolly. 😁

Young people have provenly less sympathy with fascist outlooks than older folks - and that is partially due to a correlation with higher educational qualifications than older folks.

We've banged on - at length - on this thread about the perils of nostalgia: and 'declining educational standards' is a peril of nostalgia.

We've also swapped stories on this thread about how incredibly narrow access to education was - even within the lifetimes of folks on here - and how that correlated with the authoritarianism driving the Brexit vote.

I'm with To y Blair on this one: we have to start talking about progress, the way things have improved , and have the potential to improve more.

Terror of the present - based on s midtaken, nostalgic, reading of the past as a refuge - which feeds into a horror of the future, is part of what is driving Brexit.

We have to give people a narrative of hope, based on reality, which makes people excited about future opportunities.

It sounds simple and glib but I don't see any of the political parties doing it.

Even Corbyn, with all the talk of 'hope', delivers quite a gloomy narrative.

It's bonkers!

Ohflippineck · 04/09/2019 10:39

(What does PMK mean, please 😊)

Belindabelle · 04/09/2019 10:41

Yes Scottish court ruling predictable but at least it got the lies over the prorogation timeline on the record. Every little helps.

woman19 · 04/09/2019 10:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PerkingFaintly · 04/09/2019 10:42

Yes, the main outcome of the Scottish case is that it demonstrated Johnson-Cummings had the prorogation all planned from August, and actively misled the public – and the court – about it.

That, and that Johnson didn't feel comfortable making a sworn affidavit about his reasons for proroguing...

Apileofballyhoo · 04/09/2019 10:43

Is there any way of reaching the apathetic? Is there anything in history?

Is there any possibility that No Deal will be sufficiently shocking to halt the far right?

Incidentally, is there any possibility of those "Tory insurgents" banding together as another political party? Could they be persuaded to run again as that party?

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 04/09/2019 10:46

The logic is that the eu will only improve on the wa if they think the alternative is no deal. As long as any other outcome remains in play, it would obviously not be in their interests to do so.

Megan that’s not what he said - he didn’t say they wouldn’t offer a deal because they know No Deal is off the table (I understand that logic, even though I disagree with it). He said they wouldn’t offer another deal because they wouldn’t believe the HoC would vote for it. That’s quite different.

BestIsWest · 04/09/2019 10:48

Pmk

Ohflippineck · 04/09/2019 10:51

(PMK? Anyone?)

Usingmyindoorvoice · 04/09/2019 10:53

PMK means placemarking

prettybird · 04/09/2019 10:53

It's been explained. And there is a thread explaining the acronyms.

Apileofballyhoo · 04/09/2019 10:53

Place Mark King

Apileofballyhoo · 04/09/2019 10:55

I can't find the thread that explains the abbreviations or I'd post it and bump it up.

TheElementsSong · 04/09/2019 10:55

PMK = Place marking.

Tanith · 04/09/2019 10:55

We’re not seeing the end of the Conservative Party, we’re seeing the take-over of the Conservative Party.

The disrespect JRM showed yesterday has not gone down well with traditional Conservative voters, however much it appealed to the Brexiteers - he’s appealing to the Brexit Party, not his own.

Peregrina · 04/09/2019 11:00

and 'declining educational standards' is a peril of nostalgia.

Let's nail this idea that it's a lack of education. Himmler, Goering, Goebbels, and Heydrich were all educated men. Nor do Johnson and Rees-Mogg lack for education.

PMK - place mat king - a typo or phone 'correction' for placemarking, which has now caught on here.

TatianaLarina · 04/09/2019 11:01
Gin
Ohflippineck · 04/09/2019 11:02

Prettybird
It's been explained. And there is a thread explaining the acronyms.”

Not to me after I asked just now it hasn’t. It’s not on the only acronym list I could find before I asked either. No need to snap!

Ohflippineck · 04/09/2019 11:03

Thanks to others who’ve explained.