Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Brexit
Original poster

Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

493 replies

Apolloanddaphne · 23/08/2019 16:34

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

OP posts:
feelingsicknow · 24/08/2019 19:43

Granted. Therefore let's find a solution. Not stay in a bad marriage because of the kids.

Peregrina · 24/08/2019 19:46

The GFA was a solution. Now the UK has decided that an International Treaty is an inconvenience so wants to ignore it, or pretend there are easy solutions.

bellinisurge · 24/08/2019 19:47

It's not too hard @feelingsicknow . People just need to be grown ups about it and accept a border in the sea.

AuldAlliance · 24/08/2019 19:49

The problem of the UK border in Ireland is not symptomatic of how difficult it is to leave the EU. It is a unique situation which would not arise in another EU country if they voted to leave.
The problem of the UK border in Ireland is, however, symptomatic of what happens when one country colonises another, tramples all over it for centuries, ends up with incomplete decolonisation and a situation of civil war, and then disregards its obligations as signatory to an international peace treaty in order to settle internal party political issues and enact a flawed and ill thought out referendum.

None of these things are caused by being a member of the EU.

SistemaAddict · 24/08/2019 19:51

I've just been googling to learn about why the DUP objected to the GFA. I've not got any relevant search results yet as this popped up and I've found it interesting. It's from last year but worth a read for those interested.

Arlene Foster says the Good Friday Agreement can be changed. Is she right?

www.thejournal.ie/arlene-foster-good-friday-agreement-4263793-Oct2018/?amp=1

MindyStClaire · 24/08/2019 20:02

Haven't read the article Bercows but I guess any agreement can be changed if all parties can agree, but that's not going to happen in this case.

I understand Trimble's point about the border in the sea being against the spirit of the gfa. It's not as egregious as a hard border on land, but I do see his point.

However I think it could be accepted (we're well used to a fudge here) with strong leadership. If the overwhelming majority of the public were willing to accept the pragmatic solution, there wouldn't be enough support in the community for loyalist paramilitaries to bring about a full return to the Troubles.

Fortunately, NI is of course currently coming down with strong, eloquent, pragmatic leaders who can see the bigger picture and get their community onside. Confused

Peregrina · 24/08/2019 20:09

I am quite sure that the Good Friday Agreement could be changed. Treaties can be changed if all parties wish it. The point to make is that both sides don't wish it. I don't have the figures to hand but I know that both NI and the Republic had Referendums to decide whether to accept the GFA and they did, with comfortable margins.

Arlene Foster and the DUP do not speak for the whole of NI.

That might be one solution - ask NI whether they would be happy with an NI backstop only.

Apileofballyhoo · 24/08/2019 20:29

That might be one solution - ask NI whether they would be happy with an NI backstop only.

Polls suggest they would. Though I think it has been dismissed as 'undemocratic' to have a referendum on it. I suspect Scotland would go mental, and of course the DUP wouldn't support it, and they're the bosses.

MoaningMinnie1 · 24/08/2019 20:34

I didn't know what it was either, Apolloanddaphne. Not sure I do now!

feelingsicknow · 24/08/2019 20:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Mistigri · 24/08/2019 20:45

a solution will need to be found

A solution was found. It's in the WA ...

MindyStClaire · 24/08/2019 20:46

I'll say again. The GFA cannot be used as a gun with which to hold the UK to membership of another political union.

Or. The UK shouldn't make huge changes to its constitutional position without first adequately researching how to make that change without jeopardising any international peace treaties it's party to.

Peregrina · 24/08/2019 20:46

Then there is a simple solution - revoke A50.

I pity anyone who thinks that hard won international treaties can just be discarded because one side finds them inconvenient. The UK is the one which wants out; it's up to the UK to find a workable solution.

feelingsicknow · 24/08/2019 20:53

Wow. If only we all decided that our constitutional positions must be agreed by other supra-national bodies before we decided to make changes.

Fact of the matter is that (fortunately) it was/is still within the remit of the UK to decide which international treaties it is party to. A referendum in 2016 gave a decisive majority to withdraw from one (many) specific ones. The fact that there is a very tricky issue to be worked out with another independent (sovereign?) country in order to achieve said result does not mean it can't/shouldn't/won't happen.

We just need to agree HOW.

DippyAvocado · 24/08/2019 20:55

The problem of the UK border in Ireland is not symptomatic of how difficult it is to leave the EU. It is a unique situation which would not arise in another EU country if they voted to leave.

Exactly. Ironically, it is probably harder for the UK to leave than any other member state because of the geopolitical situation in Northern Ireland (created by centuries of British government policy). There isn't another country which has the same tension over border issues.

Apileofballyhoo · 24/08/2019 21:00

Burn the place to the ground and start again if needs be

Burn what place to the ground, feelingsicknow?

Mistigri · 24/08/2019 21:01

Ironically, it is probably harder for the UK to leave than any other member state because of the geopolitical situation in Northern Ireland (created by centuries of British government policy). There isn't another country which has the same tension over border issues.

I don't agree with this at all. It would be much more complex for countries with long land borders with the EU and which are in the euro.

While the border question in Ireland is of course very important it's also relatively easy to solve if you put ideology aside. Ireland is an island and therefore has a natural border. The original backstop, which put the EU-UK border in the Irish Sea, is in many respects a simple, obvious and practical solution.

feelingsicknow · 24/08/2019 21:26

Parliament

SistemaAddict · 24/08/2019 21:35

Mr Fawkes, is that you?

Apileofballyhoo · 24/08/2019 21:52

If the DUP weren't propping up the Tories the backstop would be in place by now.

bellinisurge · 24/08/2019 22:21

I agree @Apileofballyhoo

bellinisurge · 24/08/2019 22:22

"Burn the place to the ground and start again if needs be, but our pollies are going to have to come up with a solution. "

Fuck. Off.

Legomadx2 · 24/08/2019 22:27

Thank you @Slomi I have ordered that noon you recommended.

Much appreciated!

Legomadx2 · 24/08/2019 22:27

*book obvs

chomalungma · 24/08/2019 22:30

The GFA cannot be used as a gun with which to hold the UK to membership of another political union

Doesn't have to be. We can have a Customs Union. No EU membership but close ties to them.

Swipe left for the next trending thread