Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

Fact of the matter is that (fortunately) it was/is still within the remit of the UK to decide which international treaties it is party to.

It's a peace treaty, not some random bit of legislation. A peace treaty that in the space of a generation put an end to decades of violence and killing. If the UK decides to renege on the GFA, it will be regarded with deep mistrust by many, and rightly so. As Congress has indicated.

Your comments about burning places down are frankly disgusting.

Excellent explanation by MindyStClaire at the beginning of the thread.

OP, I have understood the backstop, then forgotten and got confused and had to ask again and then forgotten....ad nauseam. It is a complicated issue.

By the by, Derry Girls is a fantastic comedy series on Channel 4 but has the odd terribly poignant moment about the troubles on it. Well worth a watch, as was the Patrick Kielty documentary about growing up during the same time.

On a less relevant note this is a horribly painful (almost funny) demonstration of the terrible lack of understanding around the whole issue of Brexit from one leave voter trying to explain why he voted the way he did...www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obriens-brexit-top-10-which-law/

Just because something is hard, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

No, but it does mean we should do it slowly, carefully and with full understanding.

Which does not describe (a) the Brexit referendum question, (b) the decision to trigger A50 and thereby create a totally artificial time limit for decisions to be made, and (c) Boris doubling down on error (b)

So it’s a bit rich to complain NOW that we find ourselves in a hard position. The time to complain was before (a) ideally, but at the very latest before (b).

Such a shame that people who were so vocal about wanting to Leave paid so little interest to what that actually entails. The Leave-voting public should have been pressurising their politicians to show commitment by tackling the difficult questions first. Instead, they pressurised them to show their commitment to Brexit by rushing past each checkpoint in the process as fast as they could. The blind driving the weak over a cliff.

The EU have weaponised the GFA and patronise the people of NI by claiming that they are more interested in keeping the peace than the British Government are.

The EU have weaponised the GFA and patronise the people of NI by claiming that they are more interested in keeping the peace than the British Government are

They have a point though. It's unbelievable that none of this was debated prior to the referendum or before triggering Article 50.

But no doubt it would have been dismissed as Project Fear.

The Germans don't allow Referenda, having learnt the hard way how they can be abused. I gather that the Italians only allow them for internal affairs.

What an appalling dereliction of duty on Cameron's part to promise a Referendum, to shut up some members of his party, without paying attention to the ramifications.

The EU have weaponised the GFA and patronise the people of NI by claiming that they are more interested in keeping the peace than the British Government are.

Are you a citizen of NI or ROI @feelingsicknow, or if not, someone with family connections? (Apologies if you already said before and I missed it)

The EU have weaponised the GFA and patronise the people of NI by claiming that they are more interested in keeping the peace than the British Government are.

How? The UK has always insisted on no hard border. It's not like the UK has been insisting on a hard border and the EU have refused. Both parties are saying no hard border. It's just that the UK doesn't seem to be able to figure out how to achieve its objective and it doesn't like the solution proposed by the EU.

feelingsicknow have you ever been to NI or even listened to(not spoken to, listened to) anyone from NI about this?

"The EU have weaponised the GFA and patronise the people of NI by claiming that they are more interested in keeping the peace than the British Government are."

That is just flat out ignorant.

The people of NI have shown by voting Remain that they are the ones who want to keep the peace. The Tory Government only woke up to NI when they lost their majority! We've even had a Sec of State who didn't realise that people there voted on Sectarian lines! Although as far as the Referendum went, the vote must have crossed the sectarian lines.

What I think is interesting is that other than the border in the sea option (which is unlikely to be agreed to) nobody who supported leave can articulate a solution to NI. They say things like ' a solution must be found' or 'it's hard but it can be done' etc ..,But nobody seems willing to have a go at describing how a solution might look. At least not that I have seen.

That's why I and others keep banging on about a border in the sea. If Leavers (or anyone) comes up with something better, that's great. But they don't. This inertia, this "leaving other people to do the thinking for you" , this "putting forward outrageous ideas then pouting that no one accepts it", this is what is so pathetic.

"the DUP won't accept border in the sea". Big fucking surprise there. And yet it is the version of Leave that is most popular in NI.

The EU have weaponised the GFA and patronise the people of NI by claiming that they are more interested in keeping the peace than the British Government are

Maybe GFA suits the EU objective of cancelling Brexit? No mention of GFA in Article 50.

WTO have stated that they will not require EU or UK to install a border between NI and ROI. Border was raised on QT in the Dulwich episode 4 April 2019 and the Irish MEP was asked a direct question;

who will put in the border

No answer given.

Another poster on another thread expressed the view that Johnson can easily pass the border issue over to the EU. Sounds possible unless the miracle solution happens before 31 October

Of course the UK is entitled to change its position and break international peace treaties.
Of course other countries and international organizations can decide how they respond. The UK maybe mostly an island but it is not self sufficent and does rely on interaction with other countries.
No other country or the EU is obliged to enter any trade agreement or any agreement at all with the UK. The EU have entered short term agreements to keep planes flying and other necessities but they are short term.
When the UK wants to make any deal with the EU or the US they will face the same questions. What will you do about Northern Ireland?
Trump can negotiate any deal he wants but it won’t pass Congress so will never happen.

Of course the UK is entitled to change its position and break international peace treaties

If there is no border installed between NI and ROI how is the peace treaty broken?

The question of who will install a border was presented to the Irish MEP,. Mairead McGuiness by the no deal supporter, Charles Moore, but no reply was given. He also expressed the view that no deal was a bigger problem for Ireland than UK (admittedly in a very smug manner). That too did not get an answer.

Are Ireland be used by EU for the purpose of trying to cancel Brexit, or EU genuinely worried about a treaty they are not party to?

I would say the former as all politicians say what people want to hear when it suits their own interests.

Cameron a classic example. Told Scotland the best way to remain in EU was to stay in UK. The outcome was very different

Mystery is just giving random brexiteer soundbites and theories with no knowledge of the issues at all. WTO is not in charge of international borders. QT is a TV programme, why would an Irish MEP share sensitive plans on a uk tv show?. Why would article 50 specify the GFA?

The Brexiteers are all trying to spin the issues nd deflect blame but the UK forgot about NI and now can't figure out a way to square the circle because for all their talk of the precious Union they know nothing of NI, a part of their own country.

Mystery- all you have to do is understand how people and businesses move across the border now. And then try and imagine how that flow of people will be impacted with a no deal. Think also about how currently if someone is injured along the border it is the nearest emergency services that respond regardless if which side of the border. Currently all the lighthouses around the island of Ireland work together as one entity. How will that change....

No one has answered my question.

We have allowances between countries. If you bring in something that either exceeds these allowances or is taxable, then you need customs officials to check that.

So are we going to have no differences with the EU on either say alcohol allowances or gifts exceeding a certain value.

Or will we have to declare such things - and vice versa?

I can't see how that would work in NI. If I buy something in Ireland that exceeds my allowance, and then go to Northern Ireland, I would need to pay a tax on it. Just as if I buy something from the USA and bring it here.

Unless I am missing something?

Same if there is an electrical problem- it is fixed by either side of border. The police forces on both sides currently share info but that will have to stop.... The list goes on and on..... Imagine how that will change for people both sides of the border.

"If there is no border installed between NI and ROI how is the peace treaty broken?"
You don't get it, do you. Presume you are being deliberate now.

Both sides are lying when they say we can operate on No Deal without a border. WTO rules require you to have control over your economic area. Doesn't have to be a physical border but it has to be something. Both EU and UK will need to sort out something to demonstrate control over their economic area. Until a magical technological solution appears that means nothing at all needs to be there something will have to be there. Which will need to be guarded. And the guards will need to be guarded.

Yes Choma. You will need to pay a tax or declare it, as per Switzerland for example. If I buy a sofa in IKEA Switzerland for 400 euro for my home in France, I need to stop at the customs post on the border and fill in a form in an office manned by security personnel. For all the lies told by Brexiteers about the Swiss border, that is the situation. The French and Swiss custom guards can stop me and search my car. Can you see how this might be problematic on the border with NI and how it might contravene the spirit of the GFA?

Presume you are being deliberate now

No. I thought the NI only backstop, as promoted rigoursly by yourself, was the way out of the impasse, but some posters (presumably from either NI or ROI) have suggested that may lead to troubles similar to what might happen if a border is made between NI and ROI.

Both sides are lying when they say we can operate on No Deal without a border

Thought so.

Mystery the only people in NI who have a problem with a border in the sea are the DUP. They also have a problem with people believing evolution.