Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

Thank you for the book suggestions. I've actually looked into doing a history masters on Ireland but alas I don't have the funds for it. I will just read and read and read to my heart's content. And ask questions because that's how I learn. I've learnt so much from mumsnet. It keeps my SAH single mum brain active through the daily grind of routine with 3 children. I pass my knowledge to them and we discuss our history and our future almost daily. It's vital to me that they learn the history of the UK, and Ireland. I don't know much about wales or Scotland so they are next on my list. I am still angry that school didn't teach me this. It makes me feel ignorant and I hate that so read and question is my motto.

Mystery, borders are the default situation between two countries. The EU enables a lack of borders between members through alignment of regulations. Without an EU like agreement Ireland will have to have a border if it wants to remain in the EU. Some Brexiteers think Ireland should join the UK rather than stay in the EU which would solve the Brexit problem. This will not happen.

A great explanation of how borders actually work here:
twitter.com/kevinhorourke/status/1164303732387041280?s=19

There is still a lot of tension between the Irish and British and threads like this tend to highlight it. I've seen a fair few anti British comments over my time on mumsnet hence why I'm so keen to point out that not all British people don't give a shit about Ireland and NI. Even that comment is potentially offensive due to how people identify. No offence is meant. I don't pretend to know the solution but I hope one day there is true peace between us all. I'm intrigued by the possibility of reunification so might don my tin hat and start a thread to ask about it. Some will get arsey about it but I like to know peoples opinions and perspectives. I live in England but have Irish great grandparents (really must do our family tree!).

@Bercows thank you for taking the time to learn some of our history. I hope, if you haven't already, that sometime you will pay a visit to our Lovely, colourful, peaceful, friendly country and let us welcome you.

Some Brexiteers think Ireland should join the UK rather than stay in the EU which would solve the Brexit problem

That has to be the most silly suggestion made. Ireland did not vote in 2016 as they are independent of UK.

I think this is a great thread, some of the posters explanation about the backstop have been very clear and concise. It's a pity that some newspaper sites don't pick up threads like this rather then the usual wedding or baby name threads. I'm Irish and have been watching Brexit with complete shock and morbid fascination . I look up a wide range of news/newspaper sites to read about Brexit, some of the headlines and comments are awful. This whole thing has brought out a hatred and divide that I can't see changing for a long time. I hope things will get sorted but I doubt it, it is truly depressing. No matter what happens with the backstop some people will be up in arms and a lot will suffer.

That has to be the most silly suggestion made.

And yet the Sun had an article this week claiming that Boris's big plan is that Ireland will leave the EU regulatory environment and join the UK's instead.

www.schoolbooks.ie/collections/leaving-cert-history-books

You could probably do worse than a Leaving Cert History book, Bercows. Though I think it only deals with relatively modern history as Junior Cert history does the rest.

The funny thing is, in Irish school the students are taught a fair bit about British history and not just the parts that include Ireland. They learn everything from medieval times, to the Tudors to the industrial revolution.

When I lived in Wales we were taught Welsh and English history. When I moved to England - a one line mention,"Wales was conquered." Says it all really.

This is the mindset of the English ruling class.

Haven’t RTFT yet but had to stop and thank Apileofballyhoo for the explanation because it all makes a lot more sense to me now.

They learn everything from medieval times, to the Tudors to the industrial revolution

I was taught that too, but nothing about Ireland history.

Mindy - good explanation. I always think people who can explain something simply truly understand it.

I tend to think in stories so I try and imagine what it might be like if I am a NI small business (farmer?) That regularly buys stuff from the supplier 2 miles down the road that happens to be across the border.

De lurking to say...

1. Good thread. Thanks for starting it OP

1. I remember hearing and reading during the referendum campaign that Brexit was incompatible with the GFA. At the time I also wondered why nobody cared. People can't say they weren't told.

I think there are some MPs and media commentators that could do with reading this thread

I am glad people are enjoying the thread and that i am not the only one who found it all very difficult to understand.

I am terrible with history but am making it my business to learn more. I am Scottish but my knowledge of Scottish history is woeful. I am doing a course in Scottish medieval history soon. It will be a good starting point i think.

I remember hearing and reading during the referendum campaign that Brexit was incompatible with the GFA

And yet some in NI voted to leave?

Might have been mentioned at some point, but certainly not on the remain campaign leaflets sent to each household in the UK nor on the government website eureferendum.gov.uk

Might have been mentioned at some point, but certainly not on the remain campaign leaflets sent to each household in the UK nor on the government website eureferendum.gov.uk

And even if it had been, the vast majority in England would probably have said, 'So What?' Was it 60% of Tories would prefer Brexit to happen even if it split NI off from the rest of the UK?

Was it 60% of Tories would prefer Brexit to happen even if it split NI off from the rest of the UK

I bet it's a surprise to many Tories that the official name of the Conservative party is the Conservative and Unionist Party.

"And yet some in NI voted to leave?" DUP hate GFA. And yes, some people were suckered.
But the percentage that did was nothing like the 48% in UK who voted Remain. So if our Remain votes don't count and our views are not relevant, neither are theirs. By a larger margin.

DH and I recently had a discussion about this. So the backstop ensures that there is no hard border between NI and ROI and the UK effectively stays in the customs union. Boris Johnson said in his meeting with Macron this week that the UK will not create a hard border. But what if there is No Deal wouldn’t the EU create a hard border to safeguard the single market? But isn’t a hard border exactly what the EU want to avoid?

Both are failing to acknowledge that the WTO requires you to have control of your economic area. Doesn't have to be a physical border but it has to be something. In the absence of any magical technological solution yet, it has to be some sort of infrastructure. The WTO allows you a grace period to sort that shit out. But you have to do it.
Neither the EU nor the UK wants to admit it. But to be acceptable to the WTO both sides have to do it at that border. An NI only backstop negates that because the economic border would effectively be in the sea between NI and mainland UK.

But what if there is No Deal wouldn’t the EU create a hard border to safeguard the single market?

This is the border conundrum. EU rules require border checks between EU and non EU countries. If UK leaves EU without a deal all agreements between EU and UK lapse.

ROI then finds itself in the border conundrum. To comply with EU rules as an EU member a border is required with NI. However, GFA would be breached by ROI if they install a border. To add to the conundrum, Trimble who was awarded the Nobel peace prize for his efforts in bringing about the GFA has the view that the backstop goes against the GFA principle of consent and not changing NI status relative to ROI.

Rubik’s cube is more easy to solve than the border conundrum.

What concerns me is that the fact that people who claim the backstop/hardborder/softborder/whatever is too difficult to resolve, miss the point of why many people voted to leave.

If we are so inextricably linked to this entity (EU institutions, not Ireland) that it's "too hard" to leave, it sums up for me why it is ESSENTIAL that we must leave.

This has happened by stealth and over time, where populations have simply not been given the option to object.

Just because something is hard, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

There's hard and there's suffering and death and reneging on an international peace treaty.