Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

I've said this on other threads but I'll say it again: please don't think that those outside of Ireland or Northern Ireland don't care about the people there or peace or the GFA. Some of us care very much and are very worried what brexit will do.

It always lifts my heart when someone says something like this Bercows, thank you.

@Legomadx2 Not Anglo-Irish history as a whole but for the history of the troubles I would recommend "Making Sense of the Troubles: A History of the Northern Ireland Conflict" by David McKittrick and David McVea(the updated version). I found this book very informative and accessible

I cannot believe Boris Johnson can't see the ramifications.

I can't believe this either, which leaves the conclusion that he doesn't care.

@ Bercows

My uncle was a British soldier posted to NI during the troubles period. As both of my parents were working I spent a lot of time at grandparents (my Uncles parents). I can remember my grandmother going to bed as soon as uncle left the house to return to NI. Sometimes there for days due to worry.

Then the dreaded telegram came. Uncle had not been killed, but badly injured. Attacked twice in same day. Firstly by local men and then by members of his own regiment. Reason was that he had been dating a local girl. Maybe not the most clever thing to do considering the tensions at the time.

The girl was never seen or heard of again. Would not like to think what happened to her.

I can't believe this either, which leaves the conclusion that he doesn't care

When have governments ever cared about minorities?

When have governments ever cared about minorities?

When they think they can garner a few extra votes!

This is a great thread. I am terrified of the consequences in NI also being able to remember soldiers on the streets in NI and bombings on the streets of London (and the rest of the UK of course). It was an awful time. Those saying 'oh Denmark and Norway manage it' are so pompous and ignorant they can just get in the sea.

In fact how about compulsory border service for all Leavers just to see how easy and straightforward it is.

yy flying. This >> "...you think you've grasped it but then....it's gone again."
I watch the news and read papers but I still struggle with some things.

CBBC has a good explanation

No need for so many condescending replies to OP! She was asking for a simple explanation, not a lecture. She is clearly an intelligent woman, but not everyone has a vast knowledge on all subjects. She was quite self deprecating in her post, no need for the mean replies!

I know the Channel Islands and the Isle of man have some kind of special status...do people there feel less British ? (Genuine question....)

It’s not really a special status and the history of the CI is very different. Being British isn’t really in dispute and I don’t think there’s any conflict between being British and being Guernsey.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people from the UK see the backstop as an Irish issue. Just like The Troubles were an Irish problem, eh.

The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man might consider themselves to be British but they are not in the UK.

I think the correct term (without going off to double check) is "Crown Dependencies".

It is also why they didn't get a vote in this Clusterfuck.

Being British isn’t really in dispute and I don’t think there’s any conflict between being British and being Guernsey.

And there shouldn't be a conflict between being NI and being British (if that is how you want to identify), even if there is a different kind of regulatory environment.

In some ways, the backstop would mean that NI becomes a bit more like a Guernsey situation, where there are are different legal environments to suit their situations but the people remain British. Not suggesting for a minute the situation is the same (not sure Crown Dependency would go down well as a title for NI for a start...) but allowing NI to remain British while enabling an all-Ireland economy and the structures and processes set up under the GFA to remain is really what the backstop safety net is all about.

@Bercows thank you so much for your posts, I am nodding along with everything you have written. It's good to know I am not alone and not stupid.

This post has been brilliant thank you.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people from the UK see the backstop as an Irish issue

If no deal happens it might fall on Ireland to decide which to prioritise, EU border regulations or GFA as at present they are conflicting.

The people most impacted by the GFA are UK citizens. It will be a complete dereliction of duty for the UK government to hand responsibility for peace in NI over to the country next door.

f no deal happens it might fall on Ireland to decide which to prioritise, EU border regulations or GFA as at present they are conflicting

and then there's the added complication of doing a trade deal with the USA, given the support for the GFA in Congress and also the issue of WTO regulations when it comes to borders.

If only we could discuss such issues in Parliament?

I think it's great you asked this question OP. Never any shame in recognising you don't know something, and asking for information.

I think it's all been covered above but in a nutshell:

-The UK (GB&NI) has a land border with Ireland nearly 500km long. Upon EU exit this becomes a land border with the EU.

• Currently, as members of the EU, both Ireland and the UK (GB&NI) follow the same rules and standards for goods (the single market) and apply the same customs duties to goods entering from outside the EU (the customs union). This means there is no need for border infrastructure/customs officers to check goods moving to and fro are following the common rules. Goods are checked at the port of entry to the EU and that's it.

• When the UK leaves the EU there are no longer any guarantees that we follow the same rules etc The NI/Ireland border becomes a point of entry to/exit from the EU. So the options are:

1. Border infrastructure and customs checks. For historic reasons these are unacceptable to the people of NI and Ireland. Ireland and the UK are also committed to the principle of not having border infrastructure, through the Good Friday Agreement. Shared membership of the EU underpins the Good Friday Agreement so unpicking one without unravelling the other is tricky. NI historically is a contested space with different sections of the community having different constitutional aspirations. The GFA provided a framework to manage these divisions and associated tensions, that allowed people to lead their lives and to do business north-south and/or east-west, taking some of the heat out of the constitutional clash. While in a strict textual sense the GFA was not predicated on the EU, it was the joint UK and Irish membership of the EU, and in particular the customs union and single market, that made its infrastructure and delicate balance possible. This is quite good on why a hard border is a problem www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/26/hard-brexit-united-ireland-second-referendum-dup

1. "Alternative arrangements" which allow the necessary checks without any actual border infrastructure. Despite a lot of noise around this, at the moment most experts agree it's magical thinking and the technology and logistics don't exist anywhere. Norway and Switzerland have border infrastructure.

1. NI remains in the customs union and continues to work to EU rules and standards for goods, and the checks are moved to the Irish Sea ports where goods pass between NI and GB. This is unacceptable to the DUP, one of the Unionist political parties in NI, because it seems to them to loosen NI's ties and togetherness with the rest of the UK. The DUP's votes have been propping up the UK government's working majority in the HoC since 2017 so they have a loud voice. Though it's noteworthy that the DUP were happy to point out that NI cows were Irish and therefore BSE free, during the BSE crisis, so they've not always been averse to special status for NI businesses...but apparently Brexit is different.

1. The whole of UK (NI and GB) remains in the customs union and signed up to the rules and standards of the EU. This is not acceptable to many of those who supported Leave as they want to be able to diverge from EU rules and standards, and to agree separate trade deals rather than remaining signed up to the trade deals negotiated with 3rd countries by the EU, using its negotiating power as a block of 28 countries including the UK (soon to be 27).

• The withdrawal agreement (I think "deal" is a misnomer as it suggests it's the final terms of the relationship, which it isn't) provides for what happens during a 2 year transition period, starting from when UK leaves the EU formally. The idea is that the 2 years gives a buffer zone during which business as usual continues while the terms of the future relationship/trade deal with the EU are (hopefully) negotiated. The "backstop" is a safety net or insurance policy which guarantees that if nobody can come up with a better solution during the 2 year transition period plus any extensions to it, the UK as a whole (GB+NI) will continue to have a common customs territory with the EU until somebody things of a different way to avoid a hard border. It's the whole UK, not just NI, to meet the DUP's concerns about NI diverging from GB. The backstop/insurance policy/safety net is unacceptable to many leavers because it leaves open the possibility of the UK being tied to EU customs arrangements and regulations that it doesn't have a voice in, potentially indefinitely (until someone thinks of alternative arrangements).

• The current UK government has asked the EU to ditch the backstop and replace it with something else. The problem is that nobody has put forward any concrete proposals as to the "something else", despite a lot of noise and assurances about it being terribly easy to find a technological solution. You might also wonder why those in favour of ditching the backstop now are so bothered about it, if they are truly confident that alternative arrangements can be found quickly, because in that case the backstop would never be activated - like an insurance policy you never claim on.

• If we crash out of the EU without a transition agreement, there will be a hard border by default.

[Note of caution on the above explanation: I'm from England not NI though I have family in NI, from the unionist community]

It is the UK that is ripping up the GFA by Brexiting. Without both countries being in the same CU the cross border structures so important for preserving the peace and economy are impossible to maintain. Ireland will have to protect its EU borders to be in line with international law and the UK will be blamed for any ensuing chaos by the international community, (see that US letter as one example). One you no deal, the UK effectively destroys the GFA.

Excellent explanation @Apileofballyhoo thank you

I think the word 'Backstop' is entirely unhelpful and allows people to hide behind jargon without explaining it... so the 'Irish Backstop' becomes common parlance and people who can't be bothered learning about it assume it's just an Irish problem caused by the irish...

In fact the whole jargon around Brexit infuriates me. Deal or No Deal.. that's a fucking game show with Noel Edmonds, not a decision that will affect all of our futures for the rest of our bloody lives.

And for those asking why it wasn't mentioned during the campaign... it was.. .by Theresa May no less!!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-36587809

She knew! She sold out her own principles for her party, and capitulated to the DUP to retain her party's grip on power!

I predict Boris will ditch NI pretty soon, and accept the backstop by putting a border down the Irish sea, and throw the DUP under a (big red) Bus.

if they are truly confident that alternative arrangements can be found quickly, because in t

This - if they were confident in these arrangements, then the backstop would never happen.

I remember watching the Commons debates (remember those) and this point being made again and again.

WTO does not say much about borders. Whereas EU is much more clear.

If neither ROI or UK install border then GFA is preserved. Conundrum for ROI is how to follow EU rules if UK leaves without a deal? UK agreements with EU will lapse immediately meaning they have no EU border rules to follow.

US-UK trade seems to have mixed views all round. Trump advocates UK to no deal exit from EU. Congress says there will be no deals if GFA not preserved. However, if ROI chooses to install a border and UK does not then there will be the argument who actually broke the GFA.

Lots of horror stories spread about the chlorinated chicken from US and that many of their food products contain additives and colouring that are banned elsewhere. Also seems to be fears over NHS being sold off?

THANK YOU, OP for asking this question- and, like you, google wasn’t helping me. I haven’t wanted to ask precisely because of some of the snippier responses you’ve got!

Thank you, MindyStClaire, for your clear explanation!