Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

A border in the Irish sea will most probably mean the DUP's paramilitary mates targeting Catholics and the republic. Nothing solves the issue caused by Brexit for Ni. But the sea border might save the economy and allows GB to go off and get all those amazing trade deals they're promising. A UK wide backstop stops that.

The EU is not trying to keep the UK in - the UK wide backstop was a huge compromise won by May.

*UK forgot about NI"

NI was forgotten in 2009 when Article 50 was signed. Neither ROI nor UK considered the GFA when agreeing that either of them could choose to leave EU in the future. Could could have had an addendum attached to the GFA to set out how both ROI and UK would maintain GFA if either of them chose to Leave the EU

Article 50 is for any country leaving. Nor does it list every other border treaties or agreements with other countries. You can't legislate for every eventuality and I guess nobody thought the UK would be so irresponsible about one of the most celebrated international peace treaties in recent times.

It was HMG's responsibility to sort this out before the Brexit clock started ticking. It failed, not the EU, nor Ireland who repeatedly raised the issue. It was discussed in the media, including UK media people in the UK just didn't listen.

Mystery- all you have to do is understand how people and businesses move across the border now. And then try and imagine how that flow of people

I know about the huge number of daily crossings over the border. Over 30,000 in people alone as part of their daily lives.

My interest comes from Stepdaughters wish to move to ROI and marry man she met at University. His work requires regular crossing between NI and ROI I keep saying wait until Brexit is concluded as do man's parents, but looks as though they will not on the basis that Brexit will take forever.

It failed, not the EU, nor Ireland who repeatedly raised the issue

Article 50 developed between 2000 and 2009. In that time neither ROI nor the UK government took into account how they would both preserve GFA in the event either chose to Leave the EU.

GFA concluded 11 years before Article 50 concluded. Astonishing that GFA was forgotten. Only reason I can think that happened was that UK had a pro EU labour government when Article 50 was developed?

Article 50 states "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" . It is and was the UK's responsibility to sort out its own constitutional requirements. Plus Article 50 was a uk initiative so again, it should take a bit of responsibility in a. drafting it and b. triggering in without doing its homework.

in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.....

Am I correct in thinking the UK doesn't actually have a constitution?

Plus Article 50 was a uk initiative so again, it should take a bit of responsibility in a. drafting it and b. triggering in without doing its homework

Those who sign are responsible.

Article 50 was the work of Lord Kerr, a supporter of remain, of Scotland when he was secretary General of the European Convention. By his own admission he wanted a formal departure procedure to undermine anti EU arguments within Britain. Also by his own admission he thought UK would not leave EU.

If the drafter of Article 50 is at fault and the drafter was employed as secretary General of the European Convention does that not make the short comings of Article 50 an EU error?

Not revisiting GFA after Article 50 developed was a an error by the parties to the GFA, ROI and UK.

To Kerrs credit he does say that Article 50 was never meant to be that the future relationship between the leaving member and EU could not be discussed until the divorce settlement was finalized.

In short, @MysteryTripAgain , you think that everyone else is to blame. Not the UK. Not the Leave vote. Everyone is being mean.

The blame game is getting pretty desperate now.

If no-deal was so great, why would anyone want to shift the credit for it onto someone else?

Every single person playing the blame game is implicitly saying "no deal is going to be a fuck-up of gigantic proportions, so I had better get my blame-ducks lined up".

(This is of course also why nôdeal not going to happen. Some highly-ideological people might be prepared to blame Ireland, or Macron, or Lord Kerr, but most people will simply take the traditional route of blaming the prime minister.).

Only reason I can think that happened was that UK had a pro EU labour government when Article 50 was developed?

With a Government that can happily have appointed a now previous NI Sec of State who didn't realise that people voted on sectarian lines in NI, another reason is that they are totally ignorant of UK/Irish history, and are happy to remain ignorant, and think that the world revolves around little Englanders like themselves.

Mystery - does your step daughter's future husband have any concerns about how their work will be affected? Can they see any obstacles? Or do they think nothing will happen on the island of Ireland?

I am not in favour of a no deal. Just think it could be a forced situation.

Many errors have been made all round:

GFA not revisited by ROI and UK when Article 50 developed.

Article 50 developed by the European Convention with the target of undermining UK departure from EU

Cameron assumed people would not dare to vote leave

Article 50 invoked without a plan

Trump getting people in UK excited about a US-UK trade deal

Many more examples could be given by others I am sure.

does your step daughter's future husband have any concerns about how their work will be affected? Can they see any obstacles

Lots of concerns if UK leaves with no deal. Future husband runs his own business and fears it may fold if there is no deal.

@chomolumga
The situation prior to 1993 and the single market was that there were customs posts on the main border roads, many minor roads were made unusable by the UK government dismantling bridge or destroying roads and the remaining minor roads were subject to mobile customs units.
Cars were stopped by customs agents at the border, drivers were questioned and cars could be searched. Goods and vehicles could be taken by the customs agents if contraband was discovered.
Goods vehicles needed lots of paper work and clearance and again were searched.

There was a huge industry in customs clearance and an even bigger one in smuggling.

I grew up on the border and all journeys had to allow time for both customs and security clearance.

That's exactly what I thought would happen re the border. I've been to Switzerland and Norway and seen the Red and Green channels despite what Brexiteers say.

We hear about technological stuff, trusted traders, checks away from the border - but that's all for companies. Nothing about the individual traveller.

This is the sort of mess that will exist in Scotland if it gets Independence eventually. Particularly if it decides to go back into Europe after Brexit. If that’s possible...

I dared to say I had had to read an article this week at dinner recently. Two of us then tried to explain it and were completely at odds ! One saying it was a hard border and one saying it was preserve a soft border.
I think the word itself is a confusing one back of what and stopping what - both kind of dog le negatives.
All 4 of us are professional multiple degrees and not stupid and politically active and aware and we absolutely struggled.

Double negatives not dog negatives.

Nancy Pelosi is currently the speaker of the house. This does not mean that she controls Congress or in any way determines how Democrats vote in Congress. I consider it highly unlikely that there are enough Democrats who feel strongly enough about the GFA to block a US - Uk trade deal. No one really wants a hard border anyway; it is the EU who are insisting on the backstop.

Do you really?

The backstop is a safety net. I wonder if you would be so blasé about a safety net.

@Lizzzar
It is not just Nancy Pelosi, there is strong bipartisan support in the House and Senate for supporting the GFA.

No one really wants a hard border anyway; it is the EU who are insisting on the backstop.

Yes, a backstop. Ie the thing to fall back to PREVENT a hard border if all the other, better attempts to avoid a hard border fail.

Let’s say it once more as clearly as we can.

The.
Backstop.
Is.
The.
EU.
AVOIDING.
A.
Hard.
Border.
It.
Only.
Happens.
If.
The.
UK.
Doesn’t.
Provide.
A.
Better.
Solution.
The.
Only.
Reason.
Any.
Brexiteer.
Would.
Object.
To.
The.
Backstop.
Is.
Because.
They.
Do.
Not.
Believe.
The.
UK.
Can.
Avoid.
A.
Hard.
Border.
Or.
Because.
They.
Actively.
Want.
A.
Hard.
Border.

Got it?

Has anyone read the GFA? I would recommend it. Very interesting, not too difficult to understand and pretty short.