So Johnson has 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop......

[Bearbehind]

This will be interesting to watch!

Jumping in on the topic of the contribution to Eu. A few years back (4? 5?) I got a beautiful sheet from HMRC telling me the way my tax from previous year had been spent. Of the 9.900£ of contribution I paid, 69£, I think the very last item on the list, was earmarked as “EU contribution”. That’s 19p a day. I spent a LOT more in paperwork and documents to make sure my naturalisation went through...and if you think that for 69£ a student could go and enrol freely to other EU universities where the fees are (to my knowledge) ‘round 2 grands€ instead of 9.25k£...sounded like a bargain! The EHIC alone could cover those 69£ for some...

The small fry shall do as they are told by the Westminster captains.
Not a good stance to take when you want to make International Trade Deals. I do appreciate that a lot of people haven't realised that the Republic of Ireland, (a bit of a clue in the Republic part) is a separate country.

Yes it is a shame that it's not taught in school in the UK. I remember that a lot of people were shocked when the tv series Victoria showed the famine, for some people it was the first they heard about it. A lot go on about the spirit of the Blitz but I say very few know that British forces burned Cork city to the ground during the war of independence in 1920. If an Irish person brings up about the past they are quickly told to get over it ( not on here). We have a show called Reeling in years, it shows the news events in Ireland and throughout the world for each year. Honestly watching the 70/80s and the bombing and violence in both countries is frightening. What people in NI went through and put up with is shocking, the idea that we could see any of this again is so very wrong.

What does the UK produce which isn’t available from another EU country where other countries are likely to already have a trade agreement in place

Not all EU members produce exactly the same. If they did there would be no trade at all between the members.

EU has trade deals with about 70 countries in addition to the 28 EU members. That represents about half of the Worlds total countries.

Regardless, countries can make as many trade deals with as many countries as they wish to reflect fact that all countries do not produce exactly the same. UK has 100s of bilateral agreements with US, Canada and Mexico under the NAFTT (North American Free Trade Agreement) which are independent of EU.

As for products and services that are solely available from the UK and can’t be found anywhere else in the EU I wouldn’t know where to start looking. However, remember trade is a two way process. So it also depends on what others can offer too. For example both UK and France have oil. Japan does not, but sell cars. UK wants cars from Japan and can offer oil in return. A deal may be made. France makes its own cars so is not so interested in Japan’s cars.

The Office for Budget Responsibility has compared the possible impact of no-deal to the three-day week introduced in 1974 which saw economic output shrink by 3% in one quarter.

*if you think that for 69£ a student could go and enrol freely to other EU universities where the fees are (to my knowledge) ‘round 2 grands€ instead of 9.25k£...sounded like a bargain!"

You can enrol at the Sorbonne or any French university for around €200/year as an undergraduate. For now.

Bold fail. Sorry

I think the Leavers who are irritated with Ireland/NI should look at British history of interference there

Don’t go down that route. Some UK leavers might argue the same angle about Germany and France based on WW2 events.

Germany wanted world control and had it not been for Churchill the UK, along with France and Ireland would have been conquered nations. At the time other cabinet members were prepared to enter into peace talks, but Churchill objected. The end result was Germany defeated. Hence UK, France and Ireland maintained their freedom.

So some might say France is in debt to UK and Germany is in debt to the World. So why do they object to UK leaving the EU when Article 50 was developed so that any EU member could leave?

In anticipation of the comment;

“France, Germany and EU in general are looking out for the GFA”

Some might say a multitude of responses such as;

EU not party to the GFA so what’s it got to do with EU?

Where was France, Germany and EU during the troubles period?

France and Germany pissed off that 3rd largest donor to EU wants out, but quoting GFA helps EU to block UK departure.

EU less likely to break up if UK remains. This pisses Trump off as US, like UK, has a trade deficit with EU. Whereas if EU weakens it is easier for US to take over and try to combat the kicking they are currently receiving from China on trade.

Hopefully a deal is made and all parties can move on. However, I think Ireland is being used as a pawn ♟ like in a game of chess. They are used in the early stages to create short term advantage, but sacrificed in the middle and end game so the more powerful pieces gain advantage.

"Where was France, Germany and EU during the troubles period?"
Jesus. You don't really know much, do you. It was very firmly described as an "internal British law enforcement issue ". No other country or entity was allowed to be involved. Don't you know anything or are you too young?
As for the EU not being a signatory - two EU members were. For. Fuck's. Sake.

"Don’t go down that route. Some UK leavers might argue the same angle about Germany and France based on WW2 events. "
What the fuck does that nonsense even mean?

Ireland was neutral in WW II. And it was won, not by GB but by a coalition of nations of which we were a small party . We didn't lose. That's our amazing WWII achievement.

Germany wanted world control and had it not been for Churchill the UK, along with France and Ireland would have been conquered nations.

I believe this is debatable. Hitler's plans were for expansion towards the east. He is supposed to have admired Great Britain, and was taken by surprise when the UK declared war on Germany, after the invasion of Poland, when we had sat back when he invaded Czechoslovakia.

Ireland was officially neutral during WW2 although I think they did support the allied war effort to some extent. Irish people did serve in the British Army.

My Irish great uncle got a gallantry medal. Posthumously.

Whatever the WW2 situation doesn’t take away from UK behaviour in Ireland and other places in world...

I reckon US and Russia and China and various parts of empire played big parts in WW2 success too... kind of poignant that some soldiers were from parts of the world oppressed by UK and would have been treated terribly if they visited UK, but fought on the allied side. Not that Empire was totally bad - but there was certainly some bad stuff going on that did benefit UK and helped put it in the more privileged position it is in today. So yeah people should know the things UK did to screw up stuff in Ireland.

"Not that Empire was totally bad - "

Name a bit that was good. For the colonised country, that is.

I’m from a colony though mainly grew up in this country. I look at the situation in Hong Kong and wonder whether some people may have preferred to remain under British ‘rule’ than be part of China.

British did build some infrastructure and formed institutions (schools, telecoms, civil service bureaucracy) which I think accelerated development in that part of the world. On the other hand my relatives had to be relocated from their home and have curfews and rations due to British (post-war).

My Irish great uncle got a gallantry medal. Posthumously

Good for him. Hope it’s being kept safely somewhere in your family.

Hong Kong was a unique situation. We leased it from China.

WTF has WW2 got to do with current events?

Why not go back to Roman times, Vikings and the Saxons?

We are in this mess because of this obsession with WW2.

Without the US we'd have lost and the eastern bloc would have been the Western bloc.

fwiw if Chamberlain hadn't negotiated a mutual peace treaty with Poland and also overruled Churchill and went ahead with single seat fighter development in the 30's, we may not have entered the war and if we had, would have lost the air battle in 1940, no Spitfires/Hurricanes.

Neville C gets a bad press.

bellini

Have you looked at Wikipedia?

During the British East India Company rule (1757–1857), and the British Raj (1858–1947), measures aiming at amelioration were enacted, including Bengal Sati Regulation, 1829, Hindu Widows' Remarriage Act, 1856, Female Infanticide Prevention Act, 1870, and Age of Consent Act, 1891.

The campaign against female genital mutilation in colonial Kenya (1929–1932), known as the female circumcision controversy, is a period within Kenyan historiography known for efforts by British missionaries, particularly from the Church of Scotland, to stop the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM) in Kenya.

MysteryTripAgain

Your version of history is so delusional that you must you must be on another of your psychedelic trips.

@Abraid2 , it is not for us to decide India's legislation and it never has been.

@Namenic - Not that Empire was totally bad

As an Irish person who is very familiar with our history, I can tell you that for Irish people, the british empire was shit. The only people who benefited from the empire here were the colonists. They starved us. They denied us education. They introduced laws that ensured penury for the natives. Obviously I'm not as familiar with british colonial history elsewhere, but what I do know suggests it was equally shit.

@bellinisurge - Ireland was neutral in WW II.

Ireland had a partisan neutrality in WW2.