So Johnson has 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop......

[Bearbehind]

This will be interesting to watch!

It is primarily due to the UK not being willing to comply with their obligations under the GFA

Also down to how ROI will comply with GFA and EU border controls at the same time if UK leaves without a deal. Varadkar has been quoted as acknowledging that Ireland may lose some of the Single Market protection in order to preserve the GFA. Think the poster, Bellini, has said something similar?

Let’s see what Johnson’s miracle solution he has up his sleeve. Still don’t think friction less border is possible between an EU and non EU countries. Would have had them on the Eastern Europe borders by now.

@ Namenic

Leave campaign assumed a deal would be easy. Hence GFA does not raise its head. However, remain campaign did not highlight the risks of a no deal scenario or even mention borders at all other than with respect to immigration.

thornhills posts continue to demonstrate why I think no deal is the only way forward

I cannot get my head around the fact that someone can be so completely wrong whilst at the same time being incredulous that anyone thinks they’re wrong and insists it’s everyone else who is wrong

The facts mean nothing - they can never override the Daily Mail soundbites they’ve accepted as gospel

Anyone who still thinks that ‘they need us more than we need them’ will only begin to see that’s not true by proving it

@Bearbehind - why do you think a no deal is the way forward? That is the worst of all options.

I'm in NI. My business covers the whole of Ireland. North and South of the border. I'm shitting myself for brexit as we still have no idea how we will be physically affected by the border or no border. (IE daily travel will potentially be affected) I was at a local business meeting recently where the general consensus was that the general British population on the mainland just see us as a massive pain in the arse.

Is this true? Honestly? I'm just wondering.

Because I think we have to go there to prove to Leavers it’s a disaster and then start repairing the damage

I think any soft Brexit is going to end up with the Brexit Party if not winning, certainly forming a coalition in a GE, because we’ve not ‘left properly’

We’ve had 3 years to convince Leavers how bad this is and they literally dont care and and are quite happy to ignore the facts

Making them a reality then trying to limit the damage afterwards is the only way I can see out of this mess

People realising that there aren’t any trade deals we can have that don’t come at a huge price or that immigrants are now more non-white for example needs to be proved otherwise they’ll never stop with the ill informed comments like those of thornhill

Enda Kenny was Taoiseach of Ireland at the time of the referendum. He warned about the problems with the border and it's impact on the Good Friday Agreement before the vote. Theresa May as home Secretary and David Cameron both spoke out about it also, so to say that the border issue didn't come up is wrong.

@berrymummy11

I can imagine the fears all those who rely on easy passage across the border for their day to day lives. I have relative who bought property in Black Sea area when they became EU member. They are afraid that if no deal occurs they might be forced to sell at silly low price if they are restricted from using the property.

As for your question about general British population seeing Ireland as a pain I would imagine a large number of leave voters might on the basis that what 17.4 million want is being impeded by a population of less than 7 million.

All comes down to the same thing. The small fry shall do as they are told by the Westminster captains.

Theresa May as home Secretary and David Cameron both spoke out about it also

I don’t remember that in the remain campaign.

From Sky News - European Council President Donald Tusk says he will not cooperate with the UK on a no-deal Brexit and Boris Johnson will not want to go down in history as Mr 'No Deal'.

Speaking at the start of the G7 summit of world leaders in the French seaside town of Biarritz, Mr Tusk said the European Union was "willing to listen to ideas that are operational, realistic and acceptable to all EU member states, including Ireland”

Obviously the EU will want to look after it’s members, it the UK that wants to leave and (wrongly) thinks it can do better alone.

No deal is not the best option, but at same time EU can’t prevent it from happening. If UK does leave without a deal they will have to tackle the results that follow.

Gove, who is heading the no deal preparations, agrees there will be bumps along the way. However, no indication of how big the bumps will be and how long they will continue.

Oh I think there's plenty of indication of how big and deep the bumps are. It's just that some people prefer not to take heed.

@MysteryTripAgain - I agree Ireland should have been given more prominence when discussing the referendum. I knew v little Irish/NI politics and history or the complexities over there.

I think the Leavers who are irritated with Ireland/NI should look at British history of interference there. Not all the fault of people today but we do have to deal with consequences of how people in the past behaved. I’m sure the UK today benefitted from having past power in Ireland and more widely in the empire.

I listened to the steven nolan show last night on bbc5. Two of his regular guests are very pro brexit, although one of them seems quite left leaning.
Two callers phoned in and effectively challenged pretty much all they were saying, but the icing on the cake was when one of the regulars said she hoped that when we left, the country would be a fairer more egalitarian place and welcoming to people from all over the world. I'm really struggling to work out how people reputedly intelligent enough to be invited on to a bbc radio programme on a regular basis can be so bloomin naive or guliable.

Posted too soon ! Looking at the individuals who championed leave how on earth can they think that and what does it say about their overall knowledge about the situation !

Not all the fault of people today but we do have to deal with consequences of how people in the past behaved

Don’t go there as some leave supporters will ask why remain supporters want to stay in EU which benefits Germany the most considering the events in WWII

David Cameron says Brexit means either a border with the North or passport checks in Belfast
Cameron added that there were “risks” to the North in a Brexit.
Jun 15th 2016, 2:35 PM 21,755 Views

A
BRITISH PRIME MINISTER David Cameron has said a vote for the UK to leave the EU means a return to land borders between the north and south of Ireland or passport checks in Belfast for people going to Britain.

Taking his last Prime Minister’s Questions before next Thursday’s vote, Cameron said that the UK could not leave the union while making a fuss about borders and expect their own to be untouched.

He said that a leave vote would mean either a return to a land border between north and south or “some sort of checks” as people leave Belfast for the rest of the UK.

Cameron added that there were “risks” to the North in a Brexit and urged people in the North to avoid those.

Naomi Long MEP
✔
@naomi_long
Well done to the DUP. Their Brexit support could deliver border checks between NI and GB. Oops. #facepalm twitter.com/KenReid_utv/status/743043450749227008 …

Ken Reid
✔
@KenReid_utv
Prime Minister says there could be border checks between Belfast and the rest of the U.K., if vote is leave.

Alistair McDonnell of the SDLP said in the Commons that the issue was “a critical economic issue for Northern Ireland’s voters”.

If we were to leave and, as the Leave campaigners want, make a big issue about our borders, then you’ve got a land border between Britain outside the European Union and the Republic of Ireland inside the European Union.
“Therefore you can only either have new border controls between the Republic and Northern Ireland, or you’d have to have some sort of checks on people as they left Belfast or other parts of Northern Ireland to come to other parts of the United Kingdom.”

@MysteryTripAgain - do you think this is because WW2 has been done to death in school but Ireland and Empire is neglected? I think it is worrying that despite the political tensions being high in NI (eg journalist murder, bomb targeted at police), UK is willing to jeopardise GFA and safety (to be fair some NI citizens would want No deal too but a minority).

do you think this is because WW2 has been done to death in school but Ireland and Empire is neglected?

WW2 was well covered by the World at War documentary series and the movie Schindlers List went around the World.

Scotland has had the benefit of the Braveheart movie that depicted their fight for freedom that was also a World success.

Ireland has never had that amount of coverage. Troubles used to be shown on UK TV during 70s and 80s, but that is over 30 years ago. So the world in general likely knows little of the History of Ireland.

I had not read the GFA until I heard the word backstop during the Brexit negotiations. Nor was I aware of how many crossings are made across the border each day between NI and ROI.

I'm really struggling to work out how people reputedly intelligent enough to be invited on to a bbc radio programme on a regular basis can be so bloomin naive or guliable.

No. They have their own agenda and are manipulative like the rest.

UK would have more freedom to deal with other Countries direct. At present UK has a trade surplus with non EU Countries of 44 Billion. If that can be increased it is to UK benefit

and...

That will take decades. Sadly UK never got its act together with manufacturing like Germany

Those two statements are at odds with each!!! to sell more, we need to make more! ND brexit devalues the £, increasing imported raw material costs, negating any benefit of a drop in sterling.

Cheaper goods? WTO tariffs are a lot higher than EU ones (hence the rush for FTA's) & importing cheaper goods, wrecks our remaining manufacturing.

What does the UK produce which isn’t available from another EU country where other countries are likely to already have a trade agreement in place?

I think the Leavers who are irritated with Ireland/NI should look at British history of interference there.

@Namenic I really wish they would educate themselves but sadly the attitude seems to be that it's not their problem and they really don't care. All I hear is 'why are Ireland being difficult', 'we bailed them out so they owe us' and 'just get on with it'. There is a complete failure to recognise what is at stake here.

Yes, I have an Irish Mum but she wouldn't talk about the Troubles or Irish History to me because it was too upsetting. The odd comment growing up (I'm old). She died the year of the Easter Rising centenary (just after the Referendum where she voted Remain). I just made it my business to educate myself. It's pretty horrifying that other people appear not to have done the same.

It's a part of history the DUP and their faithful appear to have forgotten.