So Johnson has 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop......

[Bearbehind]

This will be interesting to watch!

Some of us dont have that option, typical Tory attitude there Bear, I'm alright Jack

Well you shouldn’t have voted leave then should you

I'm tired of people looking for the EU interest before our own. We are helping the other side win.

This belligerent talk is why we're not making any headway. We are still a partner within the EU - and we'll always have to work with them whether we like it or not. In fact the other side is Trump and his false promises and Putin's nefarious influence.
Brexit should not be a war, it should have been a collaboration.

I'm tired of people looking for the EU interest before our own. We are helping the other side win.

It’s this kind of comment that’s convinced me we need no deal.

If, after 3 years, people still think like this then clearly they’ll never change their views. The only option is to let them see first hand how sovereignty and taking back control actually looks and crystallise the consequences of their choices.

And it’s not going to be pretty

That's where I disagree with you bear. No deal won't teach anyone any lessons. It'll just deliver the actual 'other side' what it wants on a silver platter. Why should we want that?

Well you shouldn’t have voted leave then should you

I didnt, I voted Remain feel free to ask anyone on the other thread

Will UK police forces continue to receive intelligence on terrorists and other criminal activities from EU countries? The Garda Commissioner yesterday indicated that existing arrangements between Irish and Uk police will ‘fall away’ very quickly after 31st October.

I'm welsh and I live in 1 of the few Remain constituencies in the north, I was very aware how this was going to fuck my country up but due to the austerity inflicted on the Welsh by the English and the drip drip drip of the anti EU MSM they fell for the lie.

I remember watching an interview before the referendum and they were interviewing a young lad from the valleys standing in front of a sign from the town he was from and at the bottom of the sign it said something like 'regeneration funded by the EU' (Obviously I'm paraphrasing) and this lad said to the interviewer 'The EU have done nothing for us' I almost threw something at my TV

But these grand dreams of going forward as a powerhouse United Kingdom or doomed either way.

They are exactly that - due to structural problems that we have never bothered to address - short-termism is rife in British Industry, with a lack of investment in equipment and staff training. Had we done so, we might have remained a powerhouse as we were in the Victorian era, and the Brexit vote would have been much less likely to happen.

No deal won't teach anyone any lessons. It'll just deliver the actual 'other side' what it wants on a silver platter. Why should we want that?

Because until people see ‘the other side’ this won’t stop.

Even if we avoid no deal now - if it’s not a hard enough Brexit the Brexit Party will likely end up in a Tory coalition and we’ll walk away from the next round of negiotiaions.

There’s too many hard core head bangers out there for this to go away.

I didnt, I voted Remain feel free to ask anyone on the other thread

Oh right. Hence the hatred of me and every other Tory despite the fact we don’t all vote for this.

Oh right. Hence the hatred of me and every other Tory despite the fact we don’t all vote for this.

Ive been vocal in my support for Remain, the hatred for the Tories is because without them there would be no cause for Brexit.

Brexit was caused by austerity so you have consistently voted for the causes of Brexit whether you voted Leave or Remain, own it Bear you had no problem voting for the suffering of the disabled and vulnerable so its no suprise youre now a No Dealer same old same old, tories gonna tory

Brexit was caused by austerity

But why was austerity needed to begin with? A combination of Labour spending and bailing out the banks after financial crash in 2007 I remember.

Again in defense of Bear not everyone who voted Conservative is a leave supporter. It is estimated that 60% of labour voters also voted to leave in the referendum.

A combination of Labour spending and bailing out the banks after financial crash in 2007 I remember.

The Global financial crash happened in 2008 I think, Brown did all he thought he could to stop the UK crashing too hard, were all his decisions right, nope, but please explain to me why the poorest in society have had to pay for the greed of bankers and austerity stifled the UK growth and its still down today 11 years later

Again in defense of Bear not everyone who voted Conservative is a leave supporter. It is estimated that 60% of labour voters also voted to leave in the referendum.

Predominantly Labour Leave voters are focused heavily in the north which suffered much hasher austerity cuts than the south, I realise xenophobes were more likely to vote leave no matter what shade of political party they support

There’s too many hard core head bangers out there for this to go away.

Giving them what they want is not the way to defeat them. It makes irreversible changes all the more likely. It's appeasement in fact. It's the very reason Cameron called for a bloody ref in the first place. We need to push back now. I know you're a remainer bear but unfortunately your strategy is just playing into their hands.

but please explain to me why the poorest in society have had to pay for the greed of bankers and austerity stifled the UK growth and its still down today 11 years later

Banks did get out of hand in mid 2000s. Lent money to people who in reality could not afford to pay it back, but made the assumption that property always goes in in value. Hence no risk if borrower defaulted as they would repossess the property and sell for more than they had given the owner. They seemed to forget the property crash in the late 80s and early 90s.

Banks were bailed out by governments using taxpayers money, but bankers still received huge salaries and bonuses. Unbelievable.

Brexit was caused by austerity

Not entirely. The people from the same mould as Johnson, Redwood, Rees-Mogg, David Davis, Gove, Fox etc. are the least affected by austerity, but voted Leave. The idea of making more money is something which really appeals to them: scrap workers rights, which cost money, scrap the NHS and it's more for them.

own it Bear

I will not own this shit show no matter how much you think I should.

I didn’t explicitly vote for it and the referendum was not the reason I voted Tory.

I appreciate you’ve decided this is all the fault of Tories but that’s your look out.

Besides which, it’s too late for blame anyway.

I know you're a remainer bear but unfortunately your strategy is just playing into their hands.

To be honest I’m sick if it all so I now don’t care what happens.

I sick to death of people like thornhill who continue to insist this is all the EUs fault and the UK is great on it’s own.

Those people aren’t goin* to go away.

How else do you think this will be resolved?

It makes irreversible changes all the more likely

If people change their minds in the future they can vote for pro remain or pro leave parties as they choose at a General Election. If pro remain is elected they can call a referendum whether or not to rejoin the EU as allowed by Article 49.

Besides which, it’s too late for blame anyway

Correct. Witch hunting is energy wasted that would be better used to find solutions to the current situation.

There are 69 more days to 31 Oct 2019. Still time for a deal with the EU. Remember that Johnson has said he would prefer a deal to leaving without a deal.

Backstop, all be it difficult, is the only sticking point in the negotiations. Several options to solve that;

UK remains in CU and SM
NI receives some relaxation from EU
Sacrifice some of the red lines

mystery all 3 of the above could have happened at any point since A50 was invoked (suggestion 1 is the same as 3 really)

Right now it’s just whether we’ll bottle it at the last minute or get no deal.

The EU aren’t going to concede anymore, they can’t within the parameters we’ve set.

"It is estimated that 60% of labour voters also voted to leave in the referendum."

Untrue.

BBC coverage, 26-34% of Labour voters voted Leave in 2016.
30% is half of 60%. Majority of Labour voters oppose Brexit.

There could be (a few) specific places where close to 60% of Labour supporters voted Leave, I suppose.

UK remains in CU and SM

The obvious solution and one which would probably command a majority, but the ERG won't wear it, and their opinion counts for more than the opinions of we plebs.

These threads are pretty pointless as they are one sided.
We had a referendum Leave won and we must come out. We in Britain should be working together to make it work.
All I hear is why it won't work. Do you want us to fail to prove a point?
Can't bloody wait for Halloween.

UK remains in CU and SM

In other words Lexit