45000 dairy cows culled in the event og a No Deal Brexit.

[Chocolatepeanuts]

Live in NI, voted to remain. A friend stated last week that they voted leave- they had to as farmers (as are my family who didn't!).

This is just terrible.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49272343

[time4chocolate]

@jasjas1973 - its a shit deal that has taken 20 years and that I don't want any part of thanks. I am aware that FTAs come with trade offs but there is a line where a trade off is unacceptable and to me this is unacceptable for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

I hope existing EU members can stop it as it's not popular, however, it's going to be decided by QMV so I'm not hopeful.

Unfortunately, the planet won't get veto or a vote on this.

[jasjas1973]

@time4chocolate

One of the tragedies of brexit is that it has allowed the UK and to some extent the EU to forget about Climate change, the biggest, issue facing the human race.

One reason i voted to remain is because it allows a small country like the UK to influence the economic growth and trade of much larger ones... is the EU perfect in this regard? no but it will usually do better than the UK on its own, esp as we appear to be bending over backwards to court the USA and its climate change denying Govt.

The way some Brexitiers have taunted and insulted Greta Thunberg is quite sickening to be honest and shows where their morals and priorities lay.

[time4chocolate]

@jasjas1973
The reason i voted to remain is because it allows a small country like the UK to influence the economic growth and trade of much larger ones

I completely disagree with you on that one.

The EU in my eyes is in danger of shooting itself in the foot if it continues on its current trajectory of global business super power at, it would seem, almost any cost. We don't need cheaper beef at the expense of the environment, they don't need to be signing deals with a country that has one of the worst records on human rights so that we can have cheap phones and even cheaper clothing.

I sometimes think Boris had it right!

The way some Brexitiers have taunted and insulted Greta Thunberg is quite sickening to be honest and shows where their morals and priorities lay

If by some Brexiteers you mean Aron Banks, he is quite rightly getting his arse handed to him on a plate.

[jasjas1973]

@time4chocolate

As i said, i don't agree with everything the EU does, far from it! i seriously considered voting Leave and spent considerable time listening to their argument.

However, the UK is going to have to make some unsavory compromises to get quick trade deals.
So, with Brazil we will no doubt seek to replicate this deal for the UK only, Brazil can place further demands on us, as we just do not have the clout to resist, plus we need to hurry... 31/10 is only weeks away.

A trade deal with the USA will require the UK to relax its food standards (or even agree to back their stance on Iran) and tbh the environmental damage shipping more food from the US/Americas instead of the EU is hardly the Green option.

There are plenty of other less prominent Brexitiers other than AB having a go at Thunberg, my point is that these very nasty indeed evil comments seem to, predominantly, come from the Brexit side of the argument e.g. Farage and his recent unwarranted royal comments.

Thankfully, you are one of the more thoughtful and reasonable Leavers :)

[jasjas1973]

Nothing more shows the weakness of the UK then the forest fires in Brazil, the EU threatens to withhold the yet to be signed EU/Brazil FTA (a terrible deal)

Meanwhile, Johnson says he will raise the subject at next weeks G7 summit in france.... he needs that trade deal with Brazil and the Amazon can burn as far as he is concerned.

The UK will turn a blind eye to the Worlds problems in order to get FTA's

[Doubletrouble99]

I don't think you've understood Boris at all Jasjas - he is very far from likely to turn a blind eye on environmental issues. Have you forgotten his anti Heathrow expansion stance?

[time4chocolate]

Meanwhile, Johnson says he will raise the subject at next weeks G7 summit in france.... he needs that trade deal with Brazil and the Amazon can burn as far as he is concerned

He will raise it at the G7 what else would you expect him to do. Let’s hope he is not the only one.

The UK will turn a blind eye to the Worlds problems in order to get FTA's

Well the EU certainly has.
Where is your evidence that the UK will?

[Dongdingdong]

I don't think you've understood Boris at all Jasjas - he is very far from likely to turn a blind eye on environmental issues. Have you forgotten his anti Heathrow expansion stance?

Boris’s girlfriend seems to be very passionate about environmental issues as well.

[jasjas1973]

Choc
The fires in Brazil have been burning for weeks, UK sent its minister to sign up a bi lateral deal, no mention of the Amazon, isn't that evidence enough?
BJ said nothing until Macron did, it was then Macron who said the FTA would be blocked... BJ has said no such thing on the UKs deal... there isn't the time for another set of talks at the g7 esp with a US president who supports brazil and denies climate change.

Heathrow? the same BJ who said he would block the bulldozers and then won't!


IF BJ stands up to Trump over food stands and the NHS in strong irrevocable language, then i will change my mind but can you?

Can't you see that inside a trading & political bloc of 450m people and 28 countries we have a voice? outside we are just an annoying kid, thats not my thoughts, thats a German trade minister talking about Germany.

[Peregrina]

Have you forgotten his anti Heathrow expansion stance?

No, not forgotten - all mouth as usual. When it came to a vote he was conveniently absent.

[time4chocolate]

The fires in Brazil have been burning for weeks, UK sent its minister to sign up a bi lateral deal, no mention of the Amazon, isn't that evidence enough?

Yup, they were burning when the EU came back championing their historic deal, with great whoops of what a fantastic opportunity it’s going be.

The EUs deal is a crap deal Jas, you know it and I know it let’s just stop with the but, but, but UK/BJ.....

Regarding BJ this was a direct quote from Boris Johnson calling the fires "not only heartbreaking" but "an international crisis".

Currently there is no UK deal with Brazil, there is no deal signed with US, I will judge those deals when I know the detail. I can and have judged this (yet to be ratified) deal for what it is, environmentally damaging, damaging to existing EU member states and a complete waste of time and money spent over the last 20 years.

[Doubletrouble99]

Jasjas - remember there are fires every year in the Amazon. The fact that this was a much greater issue this year wasn't commonly known until very recently.
I really don't think you are giving BJ much credit. He really has had quite a bit to get a handle on and try and sort out. So I really don't think badly of him only mentioning it now. We don't know what was going on the background.
Peregrina - I hardly think you can chastise him for not voting against his own government on Heathrow his vote would have made no difference to the outcome and could have damaged his ability to have any influence in the future. He kept his head down yes by deciding to try again another day. He is now PM. He has the power to reassess these things as is happening with HS2.

[Peregrina]

I certainly will chastise him - he could have kept his mouth shut in the first place!

Cancel HS2 - yes a vote retainer for the Tories because it cuts through swathes of properties in the Chilterns. Always Tory voting until recently, when strange things have started to happen in local elections - Tories getting kicked out in favour of Green candidates.

As it happens, I think HS2 should be cancelled and the money put into trans Pennine routes, but apart from a half cock scheme to join Manchester and Leeds it isn't going to happen. Ideally they should link Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - (crossing the NE London to Scotland line) - Hull. It won't happen.

[Dongdingdong]

I would also like to see HS2 cancelled. It’s a complete waste of money. Let’s hope the outcome of Boris’s review is the correct one.

[Clavinova]

One of the tragedies of brexit is that it has allowed the UK and to some extent the EU to forget about Climate change, the biggest, issue facing the human race.

You have forgotten already - Theresa May committed the UK to a legally-binding ‘net zero’ emissions target by 2050.

Despite some criticism regarding carbon credits, Doug Parr, the chief scientist for Greenpeace UK, said the target was “a big moment for everyone in the climate movement” and a legacy May could be proud of."

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/11/theresa-may-commits-to-net-zero-uk-carbon-emissions-by-2050

[Clavinova]

Meanwhile, Johnson says he will raise the subject at next weeks G7 summit in france....he needs that trade deal with Brazil and the Amazon can burn as far as he is concerned. ... Brazil can place further demands on us, as we just do not have the clout to resist, plus we need to hurry...31/10 is only weeks away.

Personally, I think it would be a very bad PR move to roll over the Brazil/Mercosur deal at this point - a 'double-whammy' for British beef farmers - Irish beef farmers are complaining;

"The EU's new deal with the Mercosur bloc of South American countries will "decimate" the beef market here, according to the Irish Farmers' Association."

www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0630/1059319-beef-mercosur/

[woman19]

I think it would be a very bad PR move to roll over the Brazil/Mercosur deal

Brexit means collaborating with destroying the Rainforest then
20% of our trees:
20% of the world's 'lungs'

Good luck with that one boys.

[Doubletrouble99]

Woman - Brexit doesn't mean collaborating with Brazil and destroying the rainforest at all. That's what Calvinova was saying.

The EU on the other hand have a prospective deal with Brazil, that should definitely be put on hold as should any UK one.

[woman19]

Brexit doesn't mean collaborating with Brazil and destroying the rainforest at all

On the contrary.

Latest Brexit trade talks with Brazil could ‘put rainforests at risk

metro.co.uk/2019/08/22/latest-brexit-trade-talks-could-put-brazil-rainforests-risk-10614537/?ito=cbshare?ito=cbshare

[time4chocolate]

With the exception of JasJasup thread I have not yet heard one Remainer state their opinion on this Mercosur deal, rather a case of turn a blind eye and give it more but but but UK/BJ .........[insert speculative deal of doom].

[woman19]

doom
Bingo!

[time4chocolate]

Bingo is a very underated game - loads of fun to be had

So what’s your view on the deal Woman19?

[Doubletrouble99]

So Woman - what about the EU deal with Brazil? That's what they are talking about at the G7. If we stayed in the EU we would be part of that deal but now we are leaving we can decide ourselves not to have that deal So the idea that Brexit = destruction of the rainforests is more than a little far fetched.

[Motherof3Dragons]

@Doubletrouble99:
That deal is not ratified yet. Ireland & France already said they would block it if Brazil doesn’t keep in line with the environmental agreements. The Green Party in Germany is also against this deal and the German government would be under a lot of pressure to block the deal as well if SouthAmerica keeps neglecting it‘s environmental responsibilities.

[jasjas1973]

Time

We all need to make a judgement, the UK hasn't a great record putting human life before trade, supplying weapons to Saudi that are used in the Yemen... documented proof they have been used to kill civilians.

I cannot defend the EU/Brazil deal, however, it is the EU who have said they will halt the deal unless Brazil changes its stance on the Amazon, which they now appear to be doing, Boris could easily match Macrons statement... he has chosen not too.

Until recently Brazil has tried to portray itself as a defender of the Amazon, that has changed under Bolsonaro.

Of course there has been fires, the difference is the amount of these, however, when i see the amount of decking, doors, windows etc made out of South America hardwoods, i weep, the amazonian rain forest wouldn't be in danger if we in the west didn't demand their wood and beef.
We need wholesale change, Brazil is right when it says we have cut down our forests for economic development, why can't we? so we must pay Brazil and others not to cut down theirs.

The UK and EU FTA's do nothing to limit this destruction.

As for Boris and Heathrow? Boris wanted to build an airport in the Thames, something that would have had a very high environmental cost.

We should be reducing air travel, not increasing it.