Brexit still affecting family relationships - total loss of respect for my Dad

[MathsFreak]

In retrospect choosing Brexit may be a bit of a red herring, but let's see where this goes...
This evening I came across my dad's latest latest Facebook entry, a repost of a Zerohedge article.
www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-06/eight-reasons-eu-will-suffer-far-more-uk-brexit?fbclid=IwAR0TRHjLwZ8BXVBxczah73vbfuaKjoJmzj7xopFDkNf9at6f7wl-kkXEJKE
(my particular favourite is reason 8, which effectively says the EU will suffer more than the UK because... well because it bloody will.)
To be completely honest I unfriended him shortly after the referendum but still occasionally snoop on his open profile. So 'came across' is being a little generous, and re: 'occasionally' read 'daily'. Anyway, it's about the most coherent thing he's posted in a while and neatly demonstrates what I'm dealing with here. It's got me thinking / lamenting the breakdown of our relationship and if there's anything I can do to fix it.
Disclaimer: I try to have a little balance in the Brexit debate, I can see opportunities but I think the costs and uncertainty outweigh them. I'm a remainder who feels it comes down to a judgement call and everyone's entitled to make their own. Unfortunately, I rarely come across a Brexiteer who doesn't rely on garbage information or isn't a politician with obvious self interests.
I'd put my Dad squarely in the former of those two categories. Possibly due to our previously heated debates, I find it difficult to critique my Dad's arguments in front of him without him getting defensive and shifting the focus of his argument without taking on board anything I say. I've ultimately given up trying to engage. But over time, with each additional flawed post, I lose a little more respect. I'm at a point where there's little remaining. And we rarely talk.
Interested to hear if anyone else has similar experience and any tips for coping with it (apart from the obvious not snooping my dad's profile).

How entitled and self righteous do you sound OP? Get a grip as behaviour like this will soon result in you having no friends to live up up to your voting preferences.

Just read your update. It's not Brexit ruining the relationship, it's the fact he's a racist. The two are separate. I voted leave. I am not a racist.

Not the same experience, but you do ask for any tips for coping with it. I think that is an important aspect because it seems from what you have written that part of what is hurting you is that you have lost respect for him. Maybe you will need to find a way of accepting that your father is a flawed human being - maybe you knew he was flawed already but find that he is more flawed than you thought. It does not sound like discussion has been helpful so that is probably not the way to go. I would be looking to find a way drawing a line under discussion (you probably both know well enough what the other one thinks by now anyway). You don't have to agree with your father or to approve of everything he does. You are not responsible for what he thinks or does either - useful perhaps to keep in mind and have handy to trot out to yourself and others if appropriate the truism 'you can choose your friends but not your family'. I suppose what I am saying is that having accepted that it is as it is, then it becomes about finding a way to accept but not agree with the opinions/actions of the man who is your father and move on with your relationship. I wish you all the very best for a good outcome for yourself and your family.

Pathetically, I'm almost hoping for a no-deal so I can hear my family's reaction when I tell them neither I nor the children will be coming to the UK for Xmas should freedom of movement end (I don't have an EU passport, and kids don't have UK ones), and proffer that as their "Brexit dividend".

It's quite right not to fall out with your family over national-level politics, but it's also perfectly fine to be bloody livid with them for damaging their children's and grandchildren's present and futures.

I understand OP. It has affected my rl with my parents too. We don't talk about it but I deeply resent their stupidity. My husband is an EU citizen. I don't know how they can look him in the eye.

Wow that article isn't thought through, is it?

Reason 2: Currency Fluctuations
A falling currency is good for exporters and bad for importers. The British Pound has been falling in anticipation of Brexit.

So here they say: hey, our money is worth less and that is a good thing.
What a load of rubbish.

@MathsFreak I get it. I have similar issues within my family (in this case the IL rather than my own parents).

We have managed to brush it under the carpet, sort of, but it’s always there. Me being told I am overreacting and it will be worth it even if it ends a few years if hardship (they won’t really feel as they are retired) whilst refusing to accept that my reality as an EU citizen is different from theirs (apparently nothing has changed re people behaviours towards me - a shame that ten people who told my son, who is also british, to go back home haven’t read the memo....).

It’s not even about the REASONS or the arguments about staying or leaving the EU. Im often staggered at how little critical thinking my MIL (and others) uses when it comes about Brexit, believing whatever politicians are saying wo even wondering if it’s actually accurate or realistic :(

@wichitalinemanswoman

It's not Brexit ruining the relationship, it's the fact he's a racist. The two are separate

No, the two are connected. Can you not see that? I'm not called you racist btw, op. I really do believe you when you say you're not racist but just look around you and who you're standing with.

Brexit certainly has increased the level of xenophobia, if not racism.
Im not sure that one is more acceptable than the other.

I'm with you OP. I have a tenuous relationship with my DM at the best of times, but it's the wilful ignorance I find difficult to bear and which diminishes any respect I might have had for her. I've had to unfollow her on FB because of it.

It's not political. She's always voted for another party and there's never been any problem with that. Difference in ideology is one thing, refusing to assimilate facts or recognise how little she actually understands just feels different. Maybe it's because the repercussions in this case will last a lifetime, not just a term. Who knows?

My parents voted leave for reasons that were not only racist, but illogical - because they think muslims are stopping us celebrating Christmas. Since then they have got worse, now all foreign ers should be sent home. They never said any of this before Brexit. Both my sons have lovely foreign partners. I always stick up for my boys and their delightful girlfriends. It has not improved my relationship with my parents. One of by brothers has an Indian partner, the other has no friends who aren't British and shares Britain First etc. Guess which of their children is the golden child.

You have seriously fallen out with your dad over different points of view? God, get a griP.

@Nottheduchess read the thread.

DP and I are two staunch remainers. DP’s dad and my mum both voted Leave.

We joke that it’s their fault but we hardly ever discuss brexit and quite frankly, my mother is more important than politics to me and the same with DP and his dad.

Absolutely outrageous and ansurd to fall out with a family member because of Brexit.
This man gave you life and presumably brought you up and you are shitting on him because he has a different opinion to you.
I really do hope there is more to it than this one issue.
My son and his wife voted for opposite sides and are perfectly happy together, they just don't get embroiled in arguments about it at home.
I have leave and remain friends and it doesn't alter my opinion of them in any way.
Unbelievable!

I think this is really sad of you. His heart probably sinks when you try to engage with him and he probably thinks if you were anyone else constantly engaging to patronisingly tell him how wrong he is, he would say fuck off and fuck you.

My dh and I voted different ways and many family members did. All for different reason, the ones who have cared to share. On both sides there was ignorant voting, selfish, voting, selfless voting, and in depth research voting.

This is voting and I hope you get to grips with that concept before your relationship sith your dad suffers more.

Brexit has certainly increased the amount of smug self righteousness.

My dad takes any opportunity to harangue us with his views (hardline Brexiteer, why haven't we left yet etc etc) despite knowing we all voted Remain. He gets quite angry about it so we have a do not engage policy and just change the topic.

I really hope that you are finding a way forward with this. Please ignore the unkind comments. I think that you would be best setting this aside from your relationship. And I agree that putting on some kind of block so that you can't keep going to your dad's profile might be a good idea - I suppose it could be part of both of you setting this aside - he may be peeking at what you are writing too. Maybe you could think that in days past he might have been discussing with his mates down the pub/club/whatever and the last thing I imagine you would have been wanting to do is to sit there listening to their conversation for any longer than you had to. If we have bad times ahead as you fear, families are often important in getting through them. If you can accept the argument that politics should not be something that you fall out with family over, that may be the very best approach for your own health, happiness and family connections. Very best to you in getting through family intact (wish mine was).

@madcatladyforever, I think it depends of what it means for them to be Leavers/Remainers.
If this is someone who is always trying to push their POV down your throat, I think anyone is entitled to feel passed off. Regardless of whether it is about Brexit or anything else. But Brexit seems to have brought that sort of attitude in people (Leavers or Remainers).
If Brexit also means that said people are discounting your own experience labelling it as wrong/impossible/you dint know what you are talking about, I think that again you are entitled to feel aggrieved. And again that would be true for any other subject
eg I think that a black person is entitled to be pissed of at a White person telling them that their experience isn’t racism or that there is hardly any racism in the U.K. when that same black person is recounting their own experience of racist behaviour.
In the same way, when I’m told that xenophobia doesn’t exist in the uk and I can’t have experienced it, even though I have as an eu citizen, the. I feel entitled to be aggrieved by that sort of attitude. Esp when it’s clear that the position is coming from a ‘I dint want to accept that my vote has had a negative consequence in my own family members, aka grand children and DIL and by extend my own child’

That's such a shame that's your dad

I have an uncle who voted leave, who posts some questionable stuff on 'the facebook' and is passionate about his views and getting them out to his friends and family and has a certain view about how the world should be. I agree with very little politically, but with a little perspective I see how he got there. Hes a good man who really just wants a better world for his grandkids and family. He works hard and loves fiercely, he's witty and has us all in stitches within a minute of seeing him. He chats to my kids like they're his own and you know what? I that's what I see when I look at him, not his misguided politics. Theres so much more to him than that and if he wasn't in my life, it'd be poorer for it.

Is politics and misguided views so much of what your dad is to you?

When the time comes you too will be the elderly arseholes.

Enjoy being right and the view.

I come from a mining village, and knowing how bitter things got between the Nottinghamshire miners who didn’t agree with Scargill calling an Undenocratic strike and those in nearby areas that did. People had bricks thrown threw their windows and even murdered for their point of view (years and years later). I can see that some folk will never get over Brexit and it will affect our future relations for many, many years.

And possibly just like the miners strike and the pit closures, they were fighting a losing battle. Ways of life completely changed, whole bloody communities suffered greatly. God it was awful as a child, everyone’s dad had lost his job. Everyone. And most of us all grew up and moved away. Brexit is just a second round of this in my life.

But now a lot of those mining folk will have voted Brexit. Many of my family. Probably because they have been left behind since the pits shut, and seen their kids and grandkids move away. And yes a big influx of Eastern EuropeAns changing the way their high streets sound and look, has not helped.

I don’t support their view, it doesn’t bother me, I have travelled, I have lived abroad and in London, I am used to it. But many of these folks will not be. I don’t actually think they care if Brexit ruins lives. It’s what they want and they want to strike a bloody nose to the ruling class and those who look down on them.

I know there are many remainers who do sneer at the poor, uneducated working class. They do have their right to their opinions even if you don’t like them. It actually really pisses me off having to read/listen to the sanctimonious throwing insults at people who voted Brexit because they may not be as educated or know enough about economics. We live in a democracy where everyone gets a vote in a referendum and a general election. It’s crap Brexit was the outcome but that’s what the majority want.

So I think I have a choice really, I can accept fate and that other people have a different opinion and more of those people voted to leave than to remain. I could get bitter and angry and divide my family (and certainly some of my family have decided to do this), but I dont believe holding this negative and angry thoughts about unintelligent, racist, imbecilic leave voters is going to do me any good. My stress levels go through the roof!

That said, I would absolutely cut ties with anyone so openly racist. So In that respect I don’t blame you for unfriending your father.

I know there are many remainers who do sneer at the poor, uneducated working class

Can we please stop blaming the poor for Brexit. How come the comfortable, retired on fat pensions, home countries homeowners never get blamed for Brexit despite voting in large numbers for this mess?

Well I don’t know anyone who lives in the Home Counties, or I fact any rich, old, leave voters. I do know many working class leave voters who have little in the way of academic qualifications.