Brexit still affecting family relationships - total loss of respect for my Dad

[MathsFreak]

In retrospect choosing Brexit may be a bit of a red herring, but let's see where this goes...
This evening I came across my dad's latest latest Facebook entry, a repost of a Zerohedge article.
www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-06/eight-reasons-eu-will-suffer-far-more-uk-brexit?fbclid=IwAR0TRHjLwZ8BXVBxczah73vbfuaKjoJmzj7xopFDkNf9at6f7wl-kkXEJKE
(my particular favourite is reason 8, which effectively says the EU will suffer more than the UK because... well because it bloody will.)
To be completely honest I unfriended him shortly after the referendum but still occasionally snoop on his open profile. So 'came across' is being a little generous, and re: 'occasionally' read 'daily'. Anyway, it's about the most coherent thing he's posted in a while and neatly demonstrates what I'm dealing with here. It's got me thinking / lamenting the breakdown of our relationship and if there's anything I can do to fix it.
Disclaimer: I try to have a little balance in the Brexit debate, I can see opportunities but I think the costs and uncertainty outweigh them. I'm a remainder who feels it comes down to a judgement call and everyone's entitled to make their own. Unfortunately, I rarely come across a Brexiteer who doesn't rely on garbage information or isn't a politician with obvious self interests.
I'd put my Dad squarely in the former of those two categories. Possibly due to our previously heated debates, I find it difficult to critique my Dad's arguments in front of him without him getting defensive and shifting the focus of his argument without taking on board anything I say. I've ultimately given up trying to engage. But over time, with each additional flawed post, I lose a little more respect. I'm at a point where there's little remaining. And we rarely talk.
Interested to hear if anyone else has similar experience and any tips for coping with it (apart from the obvious not snooping my dad's profile).

You sound very harsh, critical and judgemental tbh.

Who cares how he voted, he is entitled to his opinion and views. I can't believe anyone of sane mind would delete a parent for that.

Being anti-brexit should not equate to this superiority complex you seem to have going on.

Janista / Alicewond / MiddleForDiddle - like I said the Brexit thing is a bit of red herring. I actually unfriended him after a particularly nasty little post about Muslim men coming to rape his granddaughters. So technically I didn’t unfriend due to his political views, it was the flagrant racism / islamophobia. But don’t get me started on the ‘Islam isn’t a race’ debate. But even without that, and without Facebook, I find it difficult to take someone seriously when they hold such strong views but don’t have the slightest inkling about the flaws in the information underlying their beliefs. I suppose I also take issue with his pomposity. Is it that unreasonable to have a problem with someone who thinks he’s so much cleverer / better informed than most people? (I’m not unaware of the possible perception of irony in that statement from the other posters).
The link I shared is a case in point. This is very genuinely one of the most robust pieces of ‘journalism’ he has shared in the past 3 years. It’s posted with with the suggestion that because it’s source is in America it provides a balanced perspective.
Singlenotsingle – Brexit won’t be a roaring success. For that to happen would need several things: i) for the original premise we’re better off outside the EU to be true, ii) we have a competent government able to implement it, iii) there is an outcome which is mutually and uniformly beneficial to all areas on the both the EU and UK side. Anyway, I don’t want to get side tracked into another Brexit debate. I’m sensing that perhaps you don’t share my views on whether we should stay in the EU. Hopefully the response above explains that it’s not the opinion itself I have a problem with. I find it difficult to stand by and watch someone acting superior when they spout such nonsense. (Just assume he’s not yet come across all the valid reasons for Brexit yet if it makes it easier; imagine he’s come to his view due to a pathological hatred of straight bananas.)
Lonelyplanetmum – thank you!! I think you get it. You hit the nail on the head with your final sentence. Unfortunately I no longer trust his judgement on anything, I think I've passed the point of no return.
PristineCondition – I disagree.

I can understand the OP, because I think this would have been similar for me if I'd been closer to my dad.

My dad is a very, very long-time Eurosceptic, involved in UKIP when it was an anti-Euro (the currency) party rather than a bunch of racist nincompoops. In 2016 he voted for an exit via the EEA as proposed by Richard North's small group of sane and informed leavers, who were marginalised very quickly by the ideologues like Cummings and Farage who realised that big slogans with a dog whistle would win a referendum and that plans were for sissies.

I had every respect for my dad's leave vote, because it was sincere and informed and reflected a long-held political position. But since then he has drunk the koolaid and turned into a frothing no-dealer. It hasn't affected our relationship, but only because we are not that close either geographically or emotionally.

I see where you are coming from OP. A member of my husbands family voted leave despite his 3 grandchildren all having foreign wives - two of whom have had to go through the expensive citizenship process and the third took his grandson and ggc to her home country where they got citizenship. He is the sort of bloke who complains about the colour of his nurses at his nhs knee replacement and I remember having debate with him before the vote and “I just feel that way I don’t need facts.”

It’s not like voting for different parties - it’s much more extreme than that. It’s like trying to shove the wrong sides of a magnet together.

Well at least your dad didn't vote leave because they're racist and hate immigrants (especially muslims) like most of my family did.

Just read your post up thread. Seems your dad actually is racist as well.

You make it sound as if Brexit is akin to war! Only war or some other dramatic event that would have a grave humanitarian impact would compel me to fall out with loved ones over politics.

Surely the question is can you truly love someone who is racist and you fundamentally disagree with them? I do not believe love transcends everything and love has to be s two way feeling. I don’t think the OPs dad loves her. He certainly doesn’t respect her. I’m not sure I would have such a person in my life.

Don’t read his old git Facebook and don’t get in touch with him. See what happens!

We have two Brexit “friends” and no longer see them. All our other friends and relatives are Remain. Thank God!!! Except my 90 year old mum who did worry about the shape of bananas! Her Daily Mail Reading Discussion Group have a lot to answer for!

That’s the real issue. EU hating press that printed lies and rubbish for 40 years.

As you said the Brexit thing is a red herring, your father is a racist, so why bring it up here? Are you ok?

I get you, OP. It is a huge moral issue. How do you deal with somebody close to you but who believes in the opposite you do and holds controversial views argued in a puerile and aggressive manner rather then well-argued and measured way. Especially when these view are their only identity. FB can be really lethal that way, as Bellinisurge has, in my opinion very perceptively, indicated. Perhaps a solution could be, as other posters have indicated, to block him in FB and just have a RL relationship.

But I get you. I have let relationships go with people who are leavers, and Brexit made me quit the Party for which I was an activist for nearly a decade and in which I held office as I could not stand the "arguments" of the Brexiters in the party. Veiled (or not so veiled) racism and xenophobia. Absence of arguments. Absence of reason. And these wee supposed to be my fellow party members! It broke my heart to leave and I miss active politics every day and I am politically homeless; but, as William Gladstone is reported to say (actually it is a spurious quote but the sentiment still stands): nothing that is morally wrong can be politically right.

You have a strong moral compass, OP. Be proud of it!

I get you. I’d basically be fine with someone having a different political view to me (e.g. having voted Leave) but I’d be uncomfortable if a member of my family or a close friend was openly expressing illogical or bigoted views, in your case I’d suggest not engaging in ‘debate’ (which will get nobody anywhere), actually blocking him on FB so that you aren’t tempted to look at his profile and trying to conduct yourself in such a way that you set an example of tolerance, fairness and kindness.

It is so sad. DH and I have experienced the same with family members (his parents). Although Brexit is a bit of a red herring, maybe it isn't, because it seems to have given racist people a licence to make racist comments that they would previously not have said. We've heard comments from my PILs that have really shocked me. I guess they've always held these views but not actually voiced them

Of course you shouldn't fall out with a family member over politics or if they have differing views. I do understand though. I voted remain and know a few friends and family who voted leave. My late dad did and it was about immigration for him and he did have racist views, it used to upset me if the subject ever came up so it was best to try and avoid it. It's the debating and the arguing which can affect relationships. I have a friend who voted leave as I think she thought it would improve her situation, she's a vulnerable person and it makes me sad that it probably won't improve things for her, it could make it worse. It's just a difficult thing to talk about and it puts a strain on things.

All our extended family voted the way we did but only 10% of our friends. Recently away with a group of friends and got into a political debate, not just about Brexit. Continued with banter emails afterwards, but one friend got quite nasty with DH in the end. DH rounded it off by begging to differ, but others in the group where shocked by the nastiness and checked he was okay. It's a shame that we've got to this point.

We all have the right to our opinion and we live in a democracy. Right or wrong, people had a right to vote and a right to their opinion and we have to respect that.

But where does an opinion end and hate speech begin? It's not ok to say it's all the immigrants' fault. That's not an opinion. It's hate speech and false.

Claims of racism and bigotry have dominated the last 3 years of debate. Wait until the job losses and financial issues truly hit. How do you sit down for Christmas dinner with someone whose vote has left you poorer or cost you your job?

@GhostofFrankGrimes
That's exactly my situation. My mum voted Leave and completely believes every one of very worse racist lies, she thinks we should have mass deportations, as do several others I know. I remember right after the referendum mass deportations were even talked about on MN . . I very nearly lost my job because of Brexit, I survived the Brexit cut but some of my colleagues didn't. My mum just thinks this is an unfortunate side effect but absolutely worth it, even if itd been my job going. She come to stay with me every Christmas.

I think it's understandable for the OP to feel that way. My aunt and uncle (the closest thing I have to parents) voted leave. On the one hand, my aunt is kind, funny, and generous with her time. After I spent the night at my dad's deathbed at a hospice and got in at 5am, she was downstairs with a hug in her dressing gown before I'd even sat down. On the other, she makes statements that I know are straight out of the DM and is "not racist. I just don't like Pakis". She has three grand-daughters and doesn't think leaving the EU will affect their lives in any way. I love her, always will, but I no longer have any respect for her.

It breaks my heart that my famiy is divided and has barely managed to keep contact for the last three years despite there being no indication of there being any 'extreme' members in it. I just heard from a family member that they are depressed and that the cause is Brexit. I just ask everyone to consider that on the troubles in the world and possible difficult times ahead, families help each other through. In life, you have to make room for each other rather than cut each other down.

I've lost respect for my parents and in laws over Brexit. My husband says the same.

I think part of it is that you can't quite believe that they've been warned about No Deal and actively want it. Parents are supposed to want the best for their children/grandchildren and protect them, no matter how old they are. They aren't supposed to want you to live through war-like conditions that they think they lived through in the hope it's character building and brings back some misremembered past. So angry and frustrated with them. Daily Mail readers, the lot of them.

They've also been really petty and nasty about those affected. Fine for them in their big houses and cushy pensions, eh?

And yes, it has been a shock to realise how racist/ xenophobic they have been all this time, just not feeling brave enough to voice it. Really awful.

I know that when we see one set soon, they will take great delight in winding me up about it. It's really, really weird. Clearly, nothing good is going to come out of Brexit for anyone apart from the super rich, but they are still acting like they are winners.

I have a similar issue, the restriction of free movement directly affects me and my mum voted for it. We have had several arguments about it and it has directly affected the way I think about her.

I get it. I have lost respect, too. Granted, in some cases there wasn't that much respect to be lost in the first place.

You just need to choose whether it's a relationship you still wish to have, regardless. Plenty of us rub along with family and co-workers, without particularly respecting (in our minds) their views (not just because of politics), because the alternative is more grim, so we try to talk about other things and ignore the reasons they've lost our respect. I'm not sure the respect can really be regained, sadly. You can consciously try to focus on all their good sides and the things you have in common, though.

If your passionate about it then his ignorance cannot be ignored. I fully understand your position op. It's more than a different political view. It's ignorance versus intelligence.

"You can consciously try to focus on all their good sides and the things you have in common, though." Absolutely agree GoneWishing.