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Brexit
Original poster

Do British understand how negotiation works?

97 replies

Juells · 04/08/2019 07:28

Skimming the front pages of Sunday's newspapers on the Sky website, I was struck by the offering from the Mail.
storify.com/services/proxy/2/ONg9_h6-BXq4WgxPp5sn8Q/https/media.fyre.co/e74WQJOQSprxUyUqGAxw_mail.JPG
"Boris opens EU hostilities" Confused

From the outset, the UK has adopted a really aggressive stance in the negotiations, making jokes about cherry picking, having cake and eating it, using every insulting term for the EU it was possible to think of. Fury when the EU negotiated in its own interests rather than seeing everything from the UK's viewpoint.

Who negotiates trade deals like that? I'm bewildered, genuinely, can't understand it. Why is the British government approaching it in such a weird way? Trade deals are based on good will and mutual benefit.

To the rest of the EU, two things stand out. First, David Davis's laughing rejection of an agreement that had been signed hours before, his explanation to the British press that it wasn't legally binding. Secondly, the British attitude that the Good Friday Agreement can be ignored once it's inconvenient. An international agreement, which the British signed up to; on which peace in NI depends.

Who insults the people with whom they want a good deal? How can anyone trust your word?

OP posts:
whyamidoingthis · 04/08/2019 13:37

suitcasecoveredincathair - Remembering the news reports during the Troubles, I don't know why you'd play fast and loose with the current peace either.

That's why it's only a little piece of me that thinks it.

suitcasecoveredincathair · 04/08/2019 13:39

whyamidoingthis no, I know you weren't meaning it like that, sorry Smile. Was really just rehashing one of my favourite rants to which DH has been subjected many times!

whyamidoingthis · 04/08/2019 13:41

@billysboy - Barnier was certainly ready to use Ireland

It would have been a lot easier for the EU overall if the british land border wasn't an issue. The general consensus here is that the EU have our backs and we appreciate that.

whyamidoingthis · 04/08/2019 13:42

@suitcasecoveredincathair - no, I know you weren't meaning it like that, sorry

No worries. I just wanted to be very clear about it.

Alliumlove · 04/08/2019 13:45

The whole situation is embarrassing and deeply saddening. I only know one person who voted to leave and I still don’t understand why she did. Or at least I hope I am wrong about what I think.

Original poster
Juells · 04/08/2019 13:47

What really upsets me when I think about No Deal, and the resulting job losses, is the many posts that I see on MN where both partners are working, and they're still living from hand to mouth. The whole system is already set up to benefit big business, with no care for ordinary people, and now even the tiny security of having a job will be under threat.

OP posts:
GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/08/2019 14:09

Colonial arrogrance. The europeans were supposed to lay down to the might of the British. Sadly the British side forgot that they had no empire and no leverage in the negotiations.

airforsharon · 04/08/2019 14:41

beyondmywits we also hit party conference season in Sept, so that's another couple of weeks lost there.

For all i disliked May politically, I genuinely wonder what & how Johnson is going to achieve that she couldn't. Our PM has changed, but bugger all else has, and i don't think for a minute that May was deliberately making heavy weather of things. I DO think BoJo believes a spot of disarming public school floppy hair & blustering will somehow succeed where over 2 years of intense negotiatons have failed Hmm

InTheHeatofLisbon · 04/08/2019 14:45

Colonial arrogrance. The europeans were supposed to lay down to the might of the British. Sadly the British side forgot that they had no empire and no leverage in the negotiations.

This.

The expectation that the UK has the right to mess with the GFA because England and Wales voted to Leave the EU is demonstrative of the spectacular arrogance of Westminster.

The GFA is the most important factor in any of this, and so many just don't give a fuck. Well you'll have blood on your hands when civil war starts.

Peregrina · 04/08/2019 15:17

I have a suspicion that she and Davis agreed to anything and everything to get a deal, which they thought they could then gradually unpick, so they'd end up with the bits they wanted and get rid of the bits that didn't suit them.

I think that is so. I have heard of her making blanket opt outs of other legislation and then opting back in to the bits she wanted, not realising that in this case it would not work.

Jason118 · 04/08/2019 16:09

I've done a fair bit of negotiating in my time and rule 1 is always, be respectful. Rule 2, be professional. Rule 3 know the other sides no-go areas. Rule 4 do the deal so both sides think they've won something. Rule 5 be consistent in what you offer, and define your own roadmap to the deal.
Uk gov. has done none of these, replacing them all with 'shouting'.
Fuckwits.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 04/08/2019 16:28

It’s doesn’t bode well for all the negotiations we’re going to need to do with other countries/trading blocks after brexit does it, Jason?

Original poster
Juells · 04/08/2019 16:36

Trump's assurances about a wonderful deal aren't worth squat :(

OP posts:
Peregrina · 04/08/2019 16:39

Uk gov. has done none of these, replacing them all with 'shouting'.

Fine, if you are a big powerful Empire - Might is right. Useless if not.

prettybird · 04/08/2019 17:14

I've also successfully worked in both sales and purchasing over my career, negotiating deals that a) worked for both parties and b) both parties were happy with so that they resulted in repeat business Smile

I followed the same principles as Jason118 Smile - which is essentially why I was successful at what I did Smile

Pissing off your customer or supplier is not a good strategy Confused

PrincessMargaret · 04/08/2019 17:45

Prettybird, a bit of SWOT analysis is needed here. 😂. You never threaten anything unless you can live well with the outcome of them walking away.

prettybird · 04/08/2019 17:56

Proper SWOT analysis was always done in preparation for negotiations, whether buying or selling Grin

I always worked in B2B, for reputable companies. Shame more of our politicians have never had that experience Hmm They might have been more realistic if they had Sad

dimsum123 · 04/08/2019 19:01

God, I hadn't even thought as far ahead as BJ potentially 'negotiating' international trade deals if we do car crash out. I feel a migraine coming on, and I don't even suffer from migraines...

BeardedMum · 04/08/2019 19:23

@dimsum123 😂

user1471453601 · 04/08/2019 19:27

I was struck this week by the DUP leader saying, earlier in the week that people who want "no deal" taking off the table have no idea about negotiation . Let's put apart the fact that DUP are ok with being different from the rest of the UK on things like abortion and gay weddings but Not on the backstop.

Let's concentrate on the idea that, I'm able to negotiate with someone while still pretending that I will go for not no deal is ok with me, even when it's the last thing I want .

Why try to negotiate when you are doing so from a position of a lie?

If you really think "no deal" is ok, own it.

And don't get me started on the fact that the other NI party, if they designed to take their seats, could put this shit show to bed in an instant

Just do not expect people to accept the "fact" that you are negotiating in good faith

Whoseagooddoggiethen · 04/08/2019 19:31

NI did not cause this shitshow. Do not lay the blame on them. England and wales decided to leave. Consider blaming the organ grinder rather than the monkeys.

ssd · 04/08/2019 19:43

Watching this shit show from Scotland, where almost everyone I know voted to remain, is utterly unbearable.
Colonial arrogance is spot on.

whyamidoingthis · 04/08/2019 19:59

@user1471453601 - And don't get me started on the fact that the other NI party, if they designed to take their seats, could put this shit show to bed in an instant

How exactly do you think Sinn Féin would deal with this, particularly as they only have 7 MPs?

Sinn Féin MPs are elected on an abstentionist ticket. They will not take an oath of allegiance to someone they view as a foreign queen. Paul Maskey explains it here

implantsandaDyson · 05/08/2019 06:59

And don't get me started on the fact that the other NI party, if they designed to take their seats, could put this shit show to bed in an instant

Sinn Fein campaign on absenteeism and have done for over 100 years. You would like them to ignore their voters, to suspend this part of their policy, to ride in and fix this even though the absolute fuck up of it all is actually making their long term goals much more reachable without them even having to open their mouths. I think there's probably more arrogance and ignorance in that statement than in the government's shitshow at the minute.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 05/08/2019 07:06

Not understanding why Sinn Fein MPs won't swear allegiance to Elizabeth II is quite telling tbh.

I'm never surprised that the undertones of being irritated that the Irish won't just fall in line are becoming more obvious.

It displays a staggering lack of awareness at best, and a deep ignorance of very, very recent history at worst.

NI showed, in being able to even after the terms of the GFA that with humility, sacrifice and determination, peace is possible.

Now they're not prepared to give that up because Westminster says so, they're in the wrong?

Aye, right then.