Do British understand how negotiation works?

[Juells]

Skimming the front pages of Sunday's newspapers on the Sky website, I was struck by the offering from the Mail.
storify.com/services/proxy/2/ONg9_h6-BXq4WgxPp5sn8Q/https/media.fyre.co/e74WQJOQSprxUyUqGAxw_mail.JPG
"Boris opens EU hostilities"

From the outset, the UK has adopted a really aggressive stance in the negotiations, making jokes about cherry picking, having cake and eating it, using every insulting term for the EU it was possible to think of. Fury when the EU negotiated in its own interests rather than seeing everything from the UK's viewpoint.

Who negotiates trade deals like that? I'm bewildered, genuinely, can't understand it. Why is the British government approaching it in such a weird way? Trade deals are based on good will and mutual benefit.

To the rest of the EU, two things stand out. First, David Davis's laughing rejection of an agreement that had been signed hours before, his explanation to the British press that it wasn't legally binding. Secondly, the British attitude that the Good Friday Agreement can be ignored once it's inconvenient. An international agreement, which the British signed up to; on which peace in NI depends.

Who insults the people with whom they want a good deal? How can anyone trust your word?

IheartNiles
It’s like we’ve been taken hostage by buffoons.

That was so unexpected that I snorted, and coffee came down my nose

Whosegod accepted 😎

I think it is the feeling of absolute helplessness that gets me. It’s been a shambles since the start and just get progressively worse. There was pure pity in everyone’s eyes when we were in Germany with a collective incredulity that the British Government have so greatly collectively lost the plot.

you dont take anything off the table before negotiations start though

you dont take anything off the table before negotiations start though

Threatening the EU with a No Deal Brexit is a bit like someone saying "If you don't give me what I want I'm going to punch myself in the face, then you'll be sorry!".

Juells

You dont have to threaten anything but you need to start negotiations with everything you can

We have been negotiating with the EU for years. They are hardly going to think oh a new PM let’s try again.

They are hardly going to think oh a new PM let’s try again.

And especially not when it’s Boris Johnson!

No sorry her comment on europe got on my goat and my post evolved into a rant from that.

I’m prone to a good rant myself whose, can understand that

I don't think there is anything wrong with it. It's all a game and the EU have been arrogant too. Theresa May tried to be nice and was offered a terrible deal. It is time for a new approach.

The current approach isn't arrogant, it is the political reality. There won't be a deal unless the backstop goes. The question is whether Boris is bluffing over 31 October or not.

Nothing I saw in Theresa May's behaviour could be described as nice - belligerent would be a better word.

And removing the backstop breaks an international treaty.

I think the European politicians must switch between laughing at us to being totally flummoxed by the stupidity of those in charge of Brexit.

And this is why I think out of all the Tory fuckwits that Rory bloke would have made a better PM in the current situation. At least he seems to have some decent diplomacy experience.

There won't be a deal unless the backstop goes.

There won't be a deal then, as the backstop can't go. What makes you think that the EU will throw Ireland under the bus to suit a country that's leaving?

Are there some people who don't know what the Good Friday Agreement is? Genuine question, as I keep seeing Leavers ranting about the backstop as if it's all the fault of the Irish.

I was speaking to some EU residents yesterday. They are incredibly sad we are leaving.

@Whoseagooddoggiethen - Im Irish and not shocked. The rest of the world has been commenting on British arrogance for years even before your brexit farce

Unfortunately, I agree with this. Attitudes by many British towards Ireland have always been arrogant and ignorant. I've met British people who don't realise Ireland is a different country. There seems to be a major shock amongst those type of people, including many in your government, that Ireland is not just rolling over and letting you have what you want.

I think the big problem is that the British government's approach to these negotiations seems to be a continuation of the attitude back in the days of the empire when "negotiations" consisted of gunboats and an invasion. Comments like "they need us more than we need them" show an arrogance that has resulted in the belief that the EU should just give the UK what they want as don't they know who we are.

Johnson is certainly not helping matters. He took over a week to speak to Leo Varadkar when he was elected. That is unprecedented in recent times and is definitely seen as a snub in Ireland. While Theresa May was incompetent, she at least followed diplomatic norms.

@Kittenance - you are quite right about the buffoons currently running the show but please understand that they do not and never have had majority support and they got where they are through lying and deceit. Please don't take this awful behaviour as defining all British people. We need rescuing from them

While I sympathise with you, I'm afraid your point is a total cop-out. They were elected to parliament so the UK population are ultimately responsible for them being in power.

@Juells - There won't be a deal then, as the backstop can't go. What makes you think that the EU will throw Ireland under the bus to suit a country that's leaving?

I can't find a link, but apparently this is exactly what Theresa May thought. She made a statement about Ireland being a small country and how it was unreasonable that they should dictate the terms. Thankfully, the EU are fully supportive of the Irish position that the UK should comply with the terms of the good friday agreement.

A deal without the backstop would be possible if some of the red lines set down by May were removed. Unfortunately, that doesn't look likely.

I think at this stage, most people in Europe just want the UK to leave as many of us feel you would be a toxic influence if you remained. Ideally, we would like to see a deal but, at this stage, that is purely due to the negative impact no deal would have on our economy . I started off thinking a deal would be best for the UK and the EU. At this stage, there is a little bit of me that thinks the UK deserves no deal and the consequences of that. Unfortunately, the consequences for us would be pretty bad too.

87 days to go - 30 of them in parliamentary recess... head... sand...

I can't find a link, but apparently this is exactly what Theresa May thought.

I have a suspicion that she and Davis agreed to anything and everything to get a deal, which they thought they could then gradually unpick, so they'd end up with the bits they wanted and get rid of the bits that didn't suit them.

Theresa May tried to be nice

Haha seriously? In what way?

She probably should have tried harder because I don't think anyone noticed it.

At this stage, there is a little bit of me that thinks the UK deserves no deal and the consequences of that.

Sometimes I feel the same, in exasperation, but I seriously wouldn't wish something like potential civil unrest (to pick something out of the air) on anyone. Remember the 'London' Riots? So many businesses suffered serious losses, quite a few people were badly traumatised, some people in one particular building even had their homes burned down. And obviously a few people even died.

Remembering the news reports during the Troubles, I don't know why you'd play fast and loose with the current peace either.

Barnier was certainly ready to use Ireland

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, billys.