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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Imperial March

933 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/07/2019 14:33

There are many ways to enforce power indirectly using privilege. Jacob Rees Mogg knows every trick in the book and dresses it up as respectability rather than a subtle form or intimidation and deliberate exclusion.

It's not the stuff 'of the people'.

Meanwhile the newly crowned PM, is making rather a bug deal of how he is the man 'of the people', here to serve them and to deliver their will.

There's a big theme here about presenting as 'of the people' whilst simultaneously serving the interests of the elite and reestablishing its power over the people.

It's a theme that is set to run for some time, and is entrenched in Trumpism too.

This shift in power is particularly harmful to women it must be noted.

'Strong and stable' was 'weak and wobbly' and we should be mindful that in the era of reversed spin, what 'of the people' signifies.

We've long known about the authoritarianism at the heart of leaving thinking. It's only now that it's finally going to start stomping it's feet all over our freedoms and power.

The road back will be a long and hard one because we failed to spot the threat and the dangers of it.

OP posts:
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colouringinpro · 28/07/2019 18:48

pmk thanks again Red

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SistemaAddict · 28/07/2019 18:49

PMK. Thanks red.

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Songsofexperience · 28/07/2019 18:50

Our traditional opponents are the French, so they might be the first stop for a party that's standing for traditional values. There's already been conflicts.

The UK and France have needed and helped each other militarily for over a century . Yes there's rivalry but the Entente Cordiale pre-dates the UK's membership of the EU by over 60 years.
Let's not even joke about that because there are idiots out there who might take it seriously.

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/07/2019 19:00

Dark My thoughts on this - other Westministenders may have different ideas !

imo, BJ plans on keeping the 31 October date, just for the 1 in a million chance that the EU might give in on the backstop.
Also to show he gave them every chance to do so

BUT,
he might attempt an early Brexit if Hammond, Starmer & co look like being able to stop No Deal,
e.g. if the Whips tell him he's about to lose a VoNC

  • it would take literally seconds to Email a previously written notice of early Brexit


BJ can try writing to the President of the EU Commission that the UK is Brexiting on a date before 31 October

That would be against a previous HoC motion, but if he does it sufficiently late, there might not be time to go through the UK courts and maybe even ECJ to legally stop it

- the courts would shudder at being involved in such a horrendously divisive & Constitutional issue, so might take some time to consider if the case should go forward

BJ might cause a constitutional crisis by deliberately disobeying the HoC
What is the penalty for him ?
Probably nothing significant the courts can do to him, except use harsh language

Would the notice to Brexit early be accepted by the Commission if there is a UK court case going ?
Again, they would shudder at having to make this decision about what is constitutionally / legally valid in the UK and would probably refer it to an emergency EUCO

BUT,
he might actually welcome being saved from No Deal, if he can blame someone else

in which case, he won't genuinely try this, even if he puts on a show for the ERG
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DGRossetti · 28/07/2019 19:04

@Peregrina

Me a Leaver. DGR?!!!!

Ah the rough and tumble of debate Grin

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mathanxiety · 28/07/2019 19:05

Trying to catch my breath, and PMKing...

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DGRossetti · 28/07/2019 19:05

Can anyone supply anything to counter the observation that the UK looks like early 1933 Germany ?

What will the next 12 months bring ? What will Boris use to get his enabling act ?

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/07/2019 19:09

wrt starting a handy little war:
Iraq is the most likely

What seriously worries me wrt actions against the EU:

The UK govt might join Trump in a trade war against the EU

  • there have been rumblings from the wilder Brexiters demanding that


That would be v bad for the EU and absolutely disastrous for the UK economy

After that, there might be no return to a normal trade relationship with the EU, for decades
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DGRossetti · 28/07/2019 19:12

wrt starting a handy little war: Iraq is the most likely

Who said "little" ? With each passing day, I think bigger and bigger. Curfews. Lockdowns. Suspension of habeas corpus; rationing; conscription; elections cancelled, state control of media and telecomms.

The powers are all there - it's just a question of a signature on a piece of paper.

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CrunchyCarrot · 28/07/2019 19:26

what do you think is counted as life saving meds?

Thyroid hormones, like wot I take. Smile Not having them won't kill me right away, but it'll be a long, lingering decline into misery then probably a stroke/heart attack/myxedema coma will finish me off.

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Peregrina · 28/07/2019 19:36

The UK and France have needed and helped each other militarily for over a century .

This is the thing I don't get with Leavers who whine that they don't want an EU Army - Britain and France would be top dogs in it, by a long long way. The same people who whine have absolutely no problem with us being subordinated to the US in NATO.

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yolofish · 28/07/2019 19:45

PMK with a heavy heart. The Sunday Times and MoS (I know it's shit) are both full of how wonderful the new govt is going to be. Thank god I need to light a bonfire soon...

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Iambuffy · 28/07/2019 19:46

Boris according to stewart lee:

"Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson"

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Iambuffy · 28/07/2019 19:51

Dude, I take no pleasure in having been right about Boris Johnson

Stewart Lee


Ibli it was I who wrote in June 2017 in this very paper: “The secret Tory steering committee has always intended Boris Johnson to be leader of the party and Theresa May has only been put in place as a kind of palate cleanser, a nasty-tasting mouthwash that you swill around your gums before being forced to eat actual human shit.”

Dude, I take no pleasure in having been right. The unopposed undemocratic coronation of the cheating, self-serving liar Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson is the tipping point in my relationship with this reality. Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson has made me realise, belatedly, that morality is an artificial construct we maintain by our mutual belief in its assumed value and all it takes is the success of one high-profile utter bastard to shatter the illusion. There’s nothing left to believe in. Johnson rends the fabric of faith.

In June, Judge Owen Davies QC allowed a class-A dabbler to walk free, saying he should “suffer no more” than Michael Gove. Similarly, how can you hold anyone to any standard when your prime minister is Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson? Now every day at Westminster is the Purge, when no politician’s behaviour can be judged and all crimes are legal.
 

Prepare to get trampled in the race to the top, like a 10-year-old Japanese schoolboy rugby player

Dude, I’ve got kids. It is hard enough to limit Goat Simulatorscreen time when square-eyed seven-year-olds at school are allowed to assassinate foreign criminals in luxury hotel bathrooms on Hitman 2 every night. And how do I tell the children to be honest and good and hard working, when the highest office in the land is occupied by a lying, lazy cheat who says whatever bullshit flies for him in the moment and believes in nothing? Dude, every summer I make the children write diaries of their experiences. My five-year-old has already documented her attendance at the Bob Dylan/Neil Young concert in Hyde Park, naively opining of Dylan that “you couldn’t understand the words and all the songs sounded the same”. One day, when she understands the fluid nature of the endless river of Dylan’s genius, she will be very embarrassed about that! I wonder what the guests at her wedding will make of it?

But now, dude, when I tried to impress upon my daughter that it was time to report on her visit to the modernist stained glass exhibit at Gloucester Cathedral last Saturday, she said: “But, Dad, Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson is prime minister. Why should anyone work at anything?” Dude, this is Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson’s message to the world. If you play by rules, if you care, if you tell the truth, you are a mug, a loser. Prepare to get trampled in the race to the top, like a 10-year-old Japanese schoolboy rugby player. Dude!
Tim Montgomerie, a humourless, shuffling fidget who fulfils the Lurch role in the Addams Family of the modern Conservative movement, sees global press interest in Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster Fuck-Business Fuck-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Turds Johnson’s valueless inauguration as evidence of his master’s “good box office”. But Titanic was good box office and it concerned the journey of an arrogant boat towards an immovable iceberg. People can’t turn their eyes away from an unfolding tragedy, from an unravelling disaster. This prime minister is morbidly fascinating, like slugs mating. Once I watched the cormorant that lives in Camden Lock trying to swallow a live eel. Now I will watch Boris Johnson deal with Brexit.
Dude, prepare to see a lot more of Boris Johnson’s “good box office”. His premiership will be the Sharknado of British politics and perhaps it too will have five increasingly self-parodic sequels and a cartoon spin-off voiced by the cast of Police Academy. Ha ha ha! But is there any way back now for British politics, towards the values of liberal democracy?
I believe it was I who said in a standup show in December 2013: “You can say what you like about Boris Johnson, but do you ever wake up stunned when you realise Boris Johnson is the actual mayor of London, a real place that exists? He’s not a paid mascot running around being buffoonishly amusing, while Ken Livingstone secretly does the actual mayor work locked inside a shipping container. He really is the actual mayor of London, capital city of an industrialised western nation. In Britain. Not in Italy, where the mayor is whichever man in the town touches the most women. This is Britain!” How we laughed.
And I believe it was I who repurposed the same sentences, in a spirit of environmentally friendly recycling, in another routine in 2016, thus: “You can say what you like about Boris Johnson, but do you ever wake up, stunned, when you realise Boris Johnson is the actual foreign secretary of Britain, a genuine country in the developed world? He’s not a paid mascot running around being buffoonishly amusing, while the real foreign secretary work is done by an unpaid Polish immigrant locked inside a shipping container.” How we laughed. And now, I suppose, I could do it all over again, but substitute the words “mayor of London” or “foreign secretary” with “prime minister of Britain”, but this time the sentences would turn to human shit in my mouth and I would choke on them and vomit over the front row. “Boris Johnson is Britain’s Trump,” says POTUS, incoherently, to cheering crowds of racist apologists, “they like me over there.”

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Iambuffy · 28/07/2019 19:52

There were paragraphs in that article when I posted it, honest!

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frumpety · 28/07/2019 19:59

Just a random question , if Boris were to revoke ,the next scheduled GE isn't until 2022 right ? I mean obviously he isn't going to, he is absolutely going to 'deliver' Brexit, but is the first part of my post correct ? Not the random bit Wink

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/07/2019 19:59

We've discussed here before, whether BJ or Farage is Britain's Trump

Shame we have 2 candidates for this Sad

I do like Tim Montgomerie as Lurch Grin

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/07/2019 20:04

frumpety The latest possible date for the next GE is 5 May 2022

That's independent of whether we Brexit and when

No PM can delay a GE past that date, whatever he does
(
..... unless Parliament agrees to do so because of an existential crisis, e.g. as for WW2
Won't happen)

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DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 28/07/2019 20:05

It was a good article nevertheless Iambuffy. "If you play by rules, if you care, if you tell the truth, you are a mug, a loser. Prepare to get trampled in the race to the top". That has brilliantly articulated how I've been feeling about the UK for some time.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer BigChocFrenzy, and for the other responses. General consensus is 'no' then. That's something I suppose.

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flouncyfanny · 28/07/2019 20:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LouiseCollins28 · 28/07/2019 20:08

Re Eu army. pretty simple IMO. The purpose of an armed force is to give effect to the claim of a monolppy of the legitimate use of force over a given territorty. Why on earth would the UK governments sant want t to cede to the EU any, portion of that legtimacy, that claim . NATO is cooperation of national defence forces for mutual protection. Totally differnt.

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DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 28/07/2019 20:09

Iran is currently in the news for tensions with UK/ US. On 30s Germany, I know little: but we aren't there yet imo. On the path, yes. There's a recent book out, "Travellers in the Third Reich" by Julia Boyd, and some of the stories in there are extreme.

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Mistigri · 28/07/2019 20:09

Assuming catastrophic no deal brexit (pretty likely I'd say...) then is it best to move our savings to euros??
(We have a euro account)
We've really tried hard to save. I'd hate it to be wiped out because of the tory implosion :(


This is not investment advice (talk to a financial advisor).

Unless you need euros to spend, think about buying sterling investments where the underlying assets are valued in euros or dollars. If the pound falls, the value will go up. You can do this via an ISA so any gains are tax free. Currency speculation isn't for the faint hearted and there may be tax consequences.

I use a plain share trading account for my sterling savings (an ISA is no use to me as I'm not a U.K. tax payer). I've just bought shares in a low risk global income fund, a Europe (ex U.K.) tracker fund and a world tracker fund. All those will act as hedges against a sterling collapse. Obviously there are risks if there's another financial crisis but I can afford to take that risk.

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frumpety · 28/07/2019 20:10

That's what I thought BigChoc , so if Boris did revoke, he would get to keep the top job or some other person would get it until 2022 , but the Conservatives would remain in power until that date, by which time peak Brexit might have occurred ?

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flouncyfanny · 28/07/2019 20:13

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