Westminstenders: The Imperial March

[RedToothBrush]

There are many ways to enforce power indirectly using privilege. Jacob Rees Mogg knows every trick in the book and dresses it up as respectability rather than a subtle form or intimidation and deliberate exclusion.

It's not the stuff 'of the people'.

Meanwhile the newly crowned PM, is making rather a bug deal of how he is the man 'of the people', here to serve them and to deliver their will.

There's a big theme here about presenting as 'of the people' whilst simultaneously serving the interests of the elite and reestablishing its power over the people.

It's a theme that is set to run for some time, and is entrenched in Trumpism too.

This shift in power is particularly harmful to women it must be noted.

'Strong and stable' was 'weak and wobbly' and we should be mindful that in the era of reversed spin, what 'of the people' signifies.

We've long known about the authoritarianism at the heart of leaving thinking. It's only now that it's finally going to start stomping it's feet all over our freedoms and power.

The road back will be a long and hard one because we failed to spot the threat and the dangers of it.

Is this really what Lexiters wanted?

Obvs it's not what Lexiters wanted but it is very much in line with what all of the Conservative / BXP Leavers want.

People are always going to have a range of views and it's a good thing, but you expect in a free society for common sense to prevail. I don't blame the Brexiters for having a different opinion but I do despair at the inefficiency of the Remainers to raise any realistic opposition when they had undeniably great arguments in their favour.

I think @MeganBacon , it's a failure to speak in outrageous sound bites .
If only they had got Jeremy Clarkson on board. Politically incorrect keen Remain voter.

Bellini are you saying that you think Remainers should have dropped their sensible arguments and just used soundbites? I think I credit the average voter with more intelligence than that - the people I know put a lot of effort into casting their vote sensibly.

It's all very well talking about completing the Thatcherite revolution, but don't forget her own party stabbed her in the back because she became a liability and a vote loser. She IMO is responsible for the situation now in Scotland.

Sorry Megan, most people i know aren't remotely interested in politics and look for simplistic solutions to highly complex problems, its why whole families vote Tory or Lab without a clue who or what they are voting for, so long as its "their" party!

So i do not credit the average voter with any intelligence whatsoever, they are easy fodder to the populists we've got at the moment.

@MeganBacon , sensible measured arguments didn't work. And while you may know Leave voters who considered it all sensibly (I'm related to some of them), I can't believe you have not come across, as I have, people who voted Leave based on ignorance and fantasy.

I do despair at the inefficiency of the Remainers to raise any realistic opposition when they had undeniably great arguments in their favour.

But Remainers have plenty of rational, evidence based arguments.

The issue is you can’t fight dreams of unicorns with those.

What is worrying now @MeganBacon , is that people are afraid to admit they were wrong and are doubling down, as the Americans say, on their foolishness by supporting No Deal. Which is fucking ridiculous.
Again, I can move from Remain to supporting WA so why can't Leave voters do the same. And it can be called something else as long as it respects GFA.

The only reason I would support No Deal is to pander to that little bit of me that I don't like to admit I have which hopes that people suffer for their ridiculous devotion to No Deal.
I'm a prepper with Irish citizenship. As is all my family courtesy of my Irish born Mum and Irish born FIL. So we will have some cushioning from it. I am approaching g the point where I hope it fucking chokes them.

I mean look at how ineffective the remainers have been, soubry, grieve, blair, heseltine etc.etc.. Three years they had to find a way out of this.

Why is it up to remainers? Not one of those people is or was in government.

The people who have made the most difference are those who have created legal obstacles to Brexit: Miller et al who ensured a parliamentary vote; Grieve and others who laid amendments to frustrate the government; Jo Maugham, Joanna Cherry and others who secured a ruling that Brexit can be revoked laterally.

I have heard so many stupid reasons for leaving apart from the usual take back control, control our borders, too many immigrants e.g.
banning incandescent light bulbs, done by the US first under Dubya, vacuum cleaners not being powerful enough - my new Miele is fine
the EU is too big - so we leave and make it smaller but haven't any plans as to what to replace it with except a fantasy about an equal relationship with the US
the usual complaints that the immigration policy is a white man's club which could be tackled now by throwing open immigration to the world.

In three years I haven't heard one reason which convinces me that these are worth sacrificing peace in N Ireland for, which was my main reason for voting Remain.

@BigChocFrenzy - exactly! They sold a dream (nightmare for remainers) with no real understanding of the situation- it could have taken many paths. They chose the most extreme. But had no plan on how to deliver.

And until someone proves otherwise - many Raab and Davis incl are thick as mince.

@MeganBacon - who controls the media?
BBC tonight removed the sound of boo-OMG at BJ in Scotland. Why?

The leave campaign lied and broke LAWS- but yet the met police and electoral office have done nothing. Remainers are powerless against this level of corruption.
We are about to go into an election- and BJ team will break all the laws all over again, use manipulative SM campaigns- and again he will get away with it.
It is utterly depressing.

Instead of blaming remainers - blame the leavers who have no moral fibre , who will take money from anyone, whose loyalty goes to the highest bidder - and they deliver there wish at the expense of the electorate.

There are 2 forms of effectiveness at issue here:

1. Convincing people about Brexit - Brexiters have been brilliant at this, Remainers poor

2. Carrying out Brexit - The Tories have been abysmal at this
   Totally incompetent and chaotic at actually doing something, as distinct from promising fantasies

I have no qualms about saying that Raab and Davis are thick as mince. I think a significant number of 10 year olds would know only 20 miles separates us and France and therefore Dover is one of our major ports. I don't think that needs anyone to walk in someone else's shoes - a quick look at an atlas should do the trick.

If any of you haven't seen this thread yet it might make you weep/vomit/eye roll/chuckle/shrug
If you voted Leave, did you/do you want 'no deal'? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3651010-If-you-voted-Leave-did-you-do-you-want-no-deal

@bellinisurge, no I really don't talk to stupid people. Life is too short.
My point was about Raab etc. being "thick as mince" when obviously they are winning so can't be that thick because that for sure does not happen by chance, not for three bitterly fought years in an open society with a free press.

^2) Carrying out Brexit - The Tories have been abysmal at this
Totally incompetent and chaotic at actually doing something, as distinct from promising fantasies^

Isn't that why Johnson is planning to crash out? So that he can be seen to have done something? OK then he will need to do something to rebuild the country and I doubt whether he has a clue about that yet.

Why is it up to remainers? Not one of those people is or was in government.
It's up to them because they are the ones holding that view. You can't expect someone else to argue your opinion if they hold a different one.

Is that why you ignored my medication stockpiling question megan? Because you deem yourself above talking to stupid people? Because life is to short and your happy to make it shorter for others?

This is hilarious that the remainers have not managed to do anything about the situation for 3 years, when the heavily right wing press and Euro septics have been knocking the EU for years!

The Sun's marvellously witty () Up Yours Delors front page headline was the November 1st 1990. The anti EU agenda has been pushed by right wingers, and some left wingers, for decades.

when obviously they are winning

What does that even mean?

Seriously, those remainers or those who voted remain, if you'd instead been a leaver, would you actually spend any time on here, or on social media, interacting? I know I wouldn't. Unless, there was something to worry about. But there isn't, apparently, it's all going to be fan-fucking-tastic. So it can't be that....🤔

Just going back to what DGR said about benefits going. Where have you got this information from? If it is factual, then who has published that?

I am disabled, as is my partner. I have an eight year old daughter. We are entirely dependent on benefits. If we do not receive them, we will be homeless and destitute. The only thing I could do to house my daughter would be for my ex husband to have her.

The fact that benefits are going (and I am presuming that this IS a fact) makes me now feel suicidal. I am already a burden on society and my family as it is. I cant ask them to take on me and my partner too.

Wouldn't any changes in the law on benefits need to go through Parliament? And the House of Lords?

Discussing the facts of no deal is one thing. If getting rid of benefits is NOT a fact, and merely an opinion, then perhaps it would be wise to make that clear. Not ALL of us disabled people have a partner who earns, or who has a dual nationality. Some of us are stuck here. Some of us will have to kill ourselves. That isn't being overdramatic, that's the reality. So please, don't present opinion as fact if it is not.