Westminstenders: The Imperial March

[RedToothBrush]

There are many ways to enforce power indirectly using privilege. Jacob Rees Mogg knows every trick in the book and dresses it up as respectability rather than a subtle form or intimidation and deliberate exclusion.

It's not the stuff 'of the people'.

Meanwhile the newly crowned PM, is making rather a bug deal of how he is the man 'of the people', here to serve them and to deliver their will.

There's a big theme here about presenting as 'of the people' whilst simultaneously serving the interests of the elite and reestablishing its power over the people.

It's a theme that is set to run for some time, and is entrenched in Trumpism too.

This shift in power is particularly harmful to women it must be noted.

'Strong and stable' was 'weak and wobbly' and we should be mindful that in the era of reversed spin, what 'of the people' signifies.

We've long known about the authoritarianism at the heart of leaving thinking. It's only now that it's finally going to start stomping it's feet all over our freedoms and power.

The road back will be a long and hard one because we failed to spot the threat and the dangers of it.

Songsofexpereince - I think it was viewed as a "once in a generation opportunity " - and as we know things change

Angus B MacNeil MP
@AngusMacNeilSNP
What @AlexSalmond actually said about "once in a generation" was his "view" but crucially also said the only circumstance for another ref would be an "extra mandate at a subsequent general election" - the SNP have that #bbcqt #indyref2
twitter.com/i/status/1073359279883735040
0:13
11:29 PM · Dec 13, 2018

You also get into the debate about what in politics does "once in a generation" mean? Once per GE cycle? Once per two GE cycles? When those that voted last time are dead? (because if you assumed that they wouldn't change their minds you'd have to wait c.50 years). When material circumstances change? (because that's arguably already happened, as the Scots were promised in no uncertain terms that they would get to stay in the EU if they voted No and would be kicked out if they voted Yes - and it will definitely have happened if there is a NO Deal Brexit )

What can we do as citizens? There must be something, apart from writing to one's MP (which I do occasionally - she is very sensible but as a Labour anti-Corbynite has v limited clout).

irene Well I like to annoy various posters on mn by asking do they have a list of the medications being stockpiled? Repetitively. it amuses me because there isnt one

Writing MP is good. Mine ignores me because I ask the above question in multiple ways...

There's people's votes rallies/conferences to attend brum has one tomo with some decent speakers. Even if it's useless going it's good to show the rest of the world that we the people don't want this and I think it's good to show the MPs speaking that as well.

Even if it's useless going it's good to show the rest of the world that we the people don't want this and I think it's good to show the MPs speaking that as well.

We will at least know that we stood up to be counted. Quite a few posters won't be able to say that. Nor will they be able to say, "We didn't know." They did know and they went along with it. Will that help us? Not in the short term and in the long run as Keynes said, we are all dead.

What can we do as citizens?

Watch ? Bet ? And line the streets when the call comes. Although maybe not quite as you expect.

DF has stories of how "some men" went around his village when the US were advancing, and "suggested" that all the children should line the streets cheering and waving. The GIs handed out sweets and chewing gum as the tanks made their way - unopposed - through the countryside.

And we have another thread where someone is singing the praises of a spokesperson of the AfD. Yet Leavers usually spout about How we won the War, except no one on MN will have done unless they happen to have been born before 1927!

"And we have another thread where someone is singing the praises of a spokesperson of the AfD"

Illustrating yet again that Brexit is a far right project

I think the fact we have got this far is a clear mark that MPs have become a sideshow. An irrelevance. And quite possibly an endangered species. Why waste time any money on hearing other peoples views when they are plainly wrong ?

This is where the past 3 years and headlines about judges being traitors, and a casual acceptance that the end justifies the means gets you. The only good thing (so far) is we haven't seen a "terrorist" attack which demands a sudden suspension of what few civil liberties we have left.

I couldn't bring myself to post on that thread as soon as I saw it was about the AfD as I didn't think I would be able to control myself

...and I also decided that engaging on the thread would be legitimising the credibility of the Afd's far right views. that people are taken in

I said previously on here (in different words) that I think even after Brexit happens (and all the stuff related after) that people make the mistake that things will go back to normal. I think party politics and division amongst the population will remain unhealed for a long time. Perhaps for good. So Farage will have won.

Do posters agree?

@prettybird this is what was said about the Scottish independence referendum. Is it still like that? Or have the cracks been papered over by Brexit?

CBI: What comes next? The business analysis of no deal preparations

Ra-ra, but sounding desperate underneath
Still can't avoid the fact that the impact on UK business will be far greater than on business in the EU

Quotes the IMF which, like the Bank of England, estimates No Deal will lower UK GDP by about 8%
That's not a recession; it's a full-grown Depression

The CBI has a lot of ideas to try to smooth out some of the worst problems for UK business

• but will a "Fuck Business" UK govt listen ? Their ideas rely on the EU helping out too

https://cbicdnend.azureedge.net/media/3093/what-comes-next.pdf?v=20190725.1

Illustrating yet again that Brexit is a far right project

It's hard to see how anyone could think otherwise, given the cheerleaders. Which is one reason why I still don't buy Leavers justifications. The moment you see that your POV is also that of people with swastikas tattooed on the faces, it's time for a reality check.

@tobee , in my head I have divided friends, family and acquaintances into Those who voted Leave and Those who voted Remain. I am unlikely to ever unthink this. I don't do the same exercise about how they voted in a GE.
I think about whether or not I love friends and family DESPITE how they voted.

Me too prettybird with the AfD thread. Let them keep their fascism to themselves.

Their ideas rely on the EU helping out too

Why on earth would the EU prop up such a rabidly reactionary regime whose raison d'etre is the destruction of the EU itself ? Make no mistake, once the UK is out, we won't forget about the EU. It will be the enemy we've always wanted.

In my head, as an EU migrant worker, I've divided friends and family into 'Those who give a stuff about me and my children's future' and 'those that don't'.

Sadly most of my family fall into the latter and there's no way that can ever be reconciled.

tobe which divide? There's always been divides it just didn't serve various groups to see it.

Yet Leavers usually spout about How we won the War...

As the English Football Fans sing:

"Two World Wars and One World Cup!"

And as the German fans reply, in perfect English:

"No World Wars and Six World Cups!"

tobee - I honestly can't say as I seem to live in a Yes bubble - not deliberately, as this includes family, friends from all sorts of backgrounds and almost all my old work colleagues with whom I am still in contact (lawyers, sales managers and directors, IT consultants, risk managers, accountants......)

I did avoid the topic with my group of post-Pilates coffee ladies - as I got the sense that they were Unionists and I didn't want to argue (I did challenge misconceptions though ) and spoil coffee. They are, however, far less strongly Unionist now as they are all really against Brexit (even though most of them are probably Conservative supporters) - and we've probably discussed more politics per coffee than we did in the whole run up to the Indyref.

My perception was of a political debate than energised people, re-engaging them with politics and you ended up talking ( talking ) to strangers at bus stops, on the subway, on trains about what was happening

Dh and I even did some Yes campaigning and the vast majority of people were positive with no aggression from those that said that they were going to vote No (which included some Polish people who said that they'd been told that they'd be kicked out if Scotland voted Yes ). But I am in Glasgow, which, along with Dundee, voted Yes

I had one friend with whom we mutually agreed not to talk about the Indyref as it distressed her as her dh had said that they would move back to England and she doesn't like change. I had another friend with whom I had a friendly debate as she was on the fence. I "lost" the argument with her as she decided to vote NO because she was strongly committed to the EU - but I did extract a promise from her that if we did - as I suggested was the greater risk - end up being dragged out of the EU against our will, she would campaign for Independence and she has stood by that promise .

Yet some people on MN and t'internet say that their families were split up and complain about communities where bitterness remains.

Have to say that although I said on the other thread that I think politicians are responsible if we leave without a deal, I do, on occasion, if someone annoys me think to myself "yeah and you probably bloody well voted for Brexit as well". I live in a remain bubble though, I know virtually nobody who voted to leave except one person and he at least voted Green at the Euro elections - and MIL who now has dementia and you couldn't discuss it with her now anyway, I only found out a few weeks ago from SIL that she voted leave. Where I live was almost a 50 50 split but just in favour of remain. But I think the Leave voters were of a certain age, privilege and wealth who live in the rural bits of the constituency, rather than in the town.

He's had a warm welcome in scotland

twitter.com/i/status/1155861839177244677

I hope everyone in his constituancy voted for Ali Milani and with such a slim majority probably going to be why he isnt going to rush in calling a GE

He's had a warm welcome in scotland

Off to Liverpool next, I expect...

I note that the BBC muted that "welcome" on its piece about BlowJob arriving at Bute House and meeting Nicola