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Brexit

Westministenders: A New Approach? No chance.

992 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/07/2019 16:04

Next week we will have a new PM. He will be called Boris Johnson unless something very odd has happened.

His first 72 hours will be 'interesting' especially if today's events are anything to go by.

His Cabinet is sure to be a horror show. It was noticable who abstained today - they don't think they will be in a Johnson Cabinet and clearly don't want to be.

To move forward Johnson must be able to survive a rebellion and a Queen's speech before now and 31st October.

And be able to unit his party in order to find a way forward.

And whilst parliament has voted to block proroguing parliament, it could still be dissolved if there is a vote of no confidence.

And what happens if Johnson loses a vote? Will he manage to become PM? Will there be a GE.

All the signs are that next week is going to be a hell of a ride.

Enjoy your weekend.

OP posts:
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bellinisurge · 22/07/2019 14:13

@DGRossetti , the answer to that is "fuck knows ", but the Queen will not step in and impose her will on Parliament. Even if it is probably something I'd agree with in this case because I'm pretty sure she's a Remainer (judging by her ace hat). Grin

NoWordForFluffy · 22/07/2019 14:17

They're not allowed throw you in the tower anymore, you know....

I still wouldn't lie. I have an honourable profession anyway, so truly couldn't bring myself to!

DGRossetti · 22/07/2019 14:18

Did no one read my link to the Sky News Sam Coates piece I linked at 4.24 when I had a bout of insomnia? Re Johnson getting the job Wednesday?

I do try to check out links from non-numpty posters, but occasionally they slip past.

Just in case anyone else is the same :

news.sky.com
Why next Tory leader may not become PM on Wednesday and could face early general election
By Sam Coates, deputy political editor
8-10 minutes

The arrival of the 77th prime minister on Wednesday will mark the first time in history the officeholder has been selected by a party membership rather than MPs or the wider electorate - and rarely has this transfer of power been marked by such uncertainty.

Fewer than 0.4% of the UK franchise - 160,000 Tory members drawn from the 46.8 million citizens eligible to vote in general elections - have been able to take part in a Tory leadership contest which also determines the next prime minister.

The winner of this contest will govern with a minority administration, with an unstable electoral pact with the DUP giving them a theoretical Commons majority on certain issues.

:: Tory leadership race: Voting set to close as Johnson urges UK to rediscover 'sense of mission'

They must make the toughest political decisions since the Second World War, with national debt at levels not seen since the 1960s, urgent policy challenges in almost every brief and with 100 days until Britain is due to leave the European Union without a clear plan.

At 5pm today (Monday), voting will close on the leadership contest to succeed Theresa May and the announcement of the result will take place at 11am on Tuesday.

The transfer of power will then take place on Wednesday afternoon after Mrs May's final prime minister's questions, which is designed to confer authority on the new officeholder, look seamless and be executed without controversy.

The new prime minister is appointed by the Queen on the recommendation of their predecessor, before being driven to Downing Street to make their first remarks and then enter Number 10 for the first time as officeholder.

However a leading constitutional expert has told Sky News that the unique circumstances of this election may mean there is a chance, albeit remote, that the person who wins the contest on Tuesday may not become prime minister on Wednesday.

Also possible, though far from likely, is the chance they could be facing the likelihood of a general election within days.

Theresa May outside Downing Street
Image: Theresa May will formally resign as prime minister on Wednesday

Vernon Bogdanor, research professor at the Institute for Contemporary British History at King's College London, said the circumstances of his appointment were both unprecedented and complicated.

"This is the first time in which the PM has been chosen by party members," Prof Bogdanor said.

"There have been a number [of occasions] when the leader of the opposition has been chosen by members, but this is the PM.

"Some people have said this is wrong - why should 160,000 people chose the PM. However it's fair to say this is a wider franchise than previous choices as PM, which were done by MPs only."
Tory leadership race: Johnson vs Hunt

Before the 1980s, members were not involved.

In 1976, Harold Wilson's successor Jim Callaghan was chosen by a ballot of Labour MPs while in 1990, John Major was chosen to succeed Margaret Thatcher by a ballot of Conservative MPs.

Labour changed the rules to involve members in 1981, while the Tories did so in 1998.

However political circumstances conspired to ensure the two previous handovers in power without an election did not go to the members.

In 2007, Gordon Brown was the only Labour figure with sufficient nominations to qualify for the leadership and was automatically elected.

In 2016, Mrs May's Tory opponent Andrea Leadsom withdrew before the contest went to the Tory membership.

This means the 2019 contest is the first to give the choice to the membership.

Prof Bogdanor said that this did not mean MPs had no role.

"MPs have indicated that either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Hunt are acceptable," he said. "MPs have had quite a large role."

But Prof Bogdanor warned it was not constitutionally automatic that the winner of the members' ballot on Tuesday would become prime minister on Wednesday.

Vernon Bogdanor, professor of government at King's College, arrives at the Supreme Court in London.
Image: Professor Vernon Bogdanor says the current Tory leadership race is unprecedented

He told Sky News: "The contest we've been seeing between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt is that for the Conservative Party - the largest party in parliament.

"Normally there are no problems. But in this case there is a problem - the Conservatives don't have a majority, and even with allies DUP, [it's a working majority of] just four.

"Even that needs to be qualified because some MPs have threatened they won't continue accepting the whip if the new PM does not rule out a no-deal Brexit.

"So it by no means follows that the person elected, whether Boris or Jeremy, necessarily becomes PM.
Conservative leadership candidate Boris Johnson attempts to make his own sausages in North Yorkshire.
Boris tries (and fails) to make sausages

"Enough MPs would have to say they were not prepared to serve under him.

"Suppose... just two or three Conservative MPs say that they will not support a Boris Johnson premiership. Presuming he wins, then fairly clearly he cannot command a majority. That's the key test.

"The test for being the Conservative leader is to win the contest. The test for being PM is to be able to secure the confidence of parliament."

When the winner of the contest goes to the Palace on Wednesday, the Queen will ask whether they have the confidence of parliament and can command a majority in the Commons.

The new PM could admit they do not know and be given a chance to test the Commons.

The closest precedent for this was Alec Douglas-Home, who was recommended to the Queen by his predecessor in 1963, and was given a chance to see if he could form a government before being confirmed in post.

Mr Johnson could be given a chance to test the confidence of the Commons - a situation Prof Bogdanor called an "exploratory commission" - before it rises for the summer on Thursday if this was genuinely in doubt.

On Thursday, MPs will have one day to force Mr Johnson or Mr Hunt to hold a vote of confidence against their will.

If successful, this would start the process towards a general election, although possibly not until September.

Labour appear to be against such a move, because of a precedent involving Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper in the parliamentary handbook Erskine May.

This was an occasion when Mr Harper survived a vote of no-confidence and used the episode to ask for parliament to be prorogued.

On entering Number 10, decisions will be demanded from the new prime minister immediately.

One of the first tasks is to write a note to the commanders of Britain's nuclear submarines, which is to be opened in the event of a nuclear war, directing whether or not to retaliate on the aggressor.

The next, arguably harder, decision will be to appoint the cabinet.

The former director of communications for Sir John Major, Jonathan Haslam - one of the last civil servants to hold the post before it became a political appointment - said the combination of things demanded from the new PM was immense.

"I think the thing that catches most people out is the sheer weight of responsibility," he said.

"There will be a knock on door of cabinet room - someone saying what will we do with our nuclear missiles - that's pretty sobering.

"There is the realisation that problems stop on your desk, not solutions. But they're very keen to move the problems to your in tray, not the other way round.

"One of the first problems you will encounter as a new prime minister is making a cabinet.

"Almost immediately some people are going to be disappointed. If you have a majority of only three, you want as few disappointed people as possible. How do you smooth them over?"

TokyoSushi · 22/07/2019 14:19

@tobee would you mind linking it again?

TokyoSushi · 22/07/2019 14:20

Ah, thanks @DGRosetti

Isthisafreename · 22/07/2019 14:20

@NoWordForFluffy - I have an honourable profession anyway

You're obviously not a politician then.

tobee · 22/07/2019 14:21

Thank you for doing the work for me DG!

DGRossetti · 22/07/2019 14:25

Worth noting that Vernon Bogdanor (crazy name, crazy guy Grin) is an expert, and as such no match for (example) the piercing intellect of Melanie Phillips who spent many minutes correcting him on his woeful lack of understanding about the British Constitution back in 2010. although to be fair the expertise of Phillips was backed up with the equally impressive thoughts of Amanda Platell. Maybe we should check their understanding before we carry on ?

DGRossetti · 22/07/2019 14:30

Of course the Iranian situation also plays into the hands of people who want to swerve a VoNC with the excuse that "now is not the time". Risking further destabilising the UK. Which appears to be the way the wind is blowing globally.

Wait till Argentina and Spain start kicking off ...

Isthisafreename · 22/07/2019 14:43

@DGRossetti - Of course the Iranian situation also plays into the hands of people who want to swerve a VoNC with the excuse that "now is not the time".

We've had that in Ireland since the last GE. We have a minority government, with a confidence and supply agreement with Fianna Fáil. The government should have collapsed multiple times except they are all in agreement that with brexit looming "now is not the time".

I guess Varadkar sees a silver lining in the current mess. It's definitely extended his period as Taoiseach.

DGRossetti · 22/07/2019 14:48

Of course the Iran situation might also suggest that proroguing parliament would be a Damn Fool Thing to do as well.

In fact once Brexiteers have someone read the news to them, I suspect we'll see some more looneytunes suggestions that Remoaners and Iran are working in cahoots.

(Skips off singing "很高兴在有趣的时候活着")

Peregrina · 22/07/2019 15:05

I'm really not sure Johnson could truthfully answer yes to HMTQ when asked if he can command a majority. Though his relationship with the truth is fleeting at best.

The current majority is three, I think. Wouldn't it be nice if just two Tory MPs resigned the whip and either defected or sat as independents, as soon as the result is announced? Then phut, his majority is gone. He could still be asked to form a minority Government though.

ListeningQuietly · 22/07/2019 15:22

Harvey Proctor is vindicated.
Shame the names of others were destroyed by Karl Beech.

OublietteBravo · 22/07/2019 15:36

Do they have a majority of 3 even with the DUP?

www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

311 Tories + 10 DUP = 321

But of the remaining 329 seats:
7 are held by Sinn Fein
1 is vacant
1 is the Speaker

My maths suggests that gives them a majority of ONE

bellinisurge · 22/07/2019 15:43

@OublietteBravo , Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats in Parliament (happy to take expenses money, though) and so it is never necessary to count them in the Opposition.

TheNumberfaker · 22/07/2019 15:47

Does the Speaker get to vote in VoNC?

OublietteBravo · 22/07/2019 15:49

@bellinisurge - yes I know. That’s why I subtracted their 7 seats from the 329 not held by the Tories/DUP.

DGRossetti · 22/07/2019 15:52

Does the Speaker get to vote in VoNC?

Generally no. But if they did, convention would suggest they'd vote for the government. England having given the world cricket and all ...

MrPan · 22/07/2019 15:53

bellinsurge - Sinn Fein still need the expenses to do work on behalf of their constituents who are still part of the electorate. And also expenses to contribute to the management of NI when that happens.

Only claiming expenses for actually attending at W/minster would raise a good laugh.

ContinuityError · 22/07/2019 15:54

I think Oubliette is nearly right - take out the Speaker and the Deputy Speakers and Sinn Fein and the number of seats is 639, so 320 for a majority.

Tories currently on 311 and add in the 10 DUP MPs, and it’s a majority of 2.

HesterThrale · 22/07/2019 15:58

And if the LDs win the Brecon by-election next week, and Elphicke loses the whip, what majority then?

MmeBufo · 22/07/2019 15:59

So, Allan Duncan tried (and failed) to move a confidence motion

MrPan · 22/07/2019 16:00

Bearing in mind the likes of Stringer and Hoey though..do Labour turncoats out number Tory one-nationers?

OublietteBravo · 22/07/2019 16:01

It’s a precarious government even with DUP support.

bellinisurge · 22/07/2019 16:02

@MrPan is right. People like Hoey and Stringer would probably sell their Mums for Brexit so loyalty to a party whose leader made a career out of disloyalty can't be guaranteed.