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Brexit

Westminstenders: Long live liberalism

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2019 11:54

Talk of its demise are premature.

(Sorry up to eyeballs this weekend)

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1tisILeClerc · 08/07/2019 12:00

{The Duc de Vendôme was too important for manners.
Legend has it that the 17th-century French aristocrat liked to receive visiting dignitaries while sitting on the toilet.}

It may be a necessary position for any new PM as the various chickens come home to roost and the enormity of the mess starts to dawn.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 12:09

Paul Mason: Without a transformation on Brexit, Labour’s election chances are dead

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/07/without-transformation-brexit-labours-election-chances-are-dead

To stand any hope of winning power,
the party must make itself the champion of progressive Britain once more and lead the resistance to the right

Among the right-wing electorate, support for a no-deal Brexit has grown.
As defined by who wants it, Brexit is now a right-wing project
...
a majority of the electorate now supports Remain.
The switch has been strongest among former Labour leavers: working class women, young people and ethnic minorities.

As cultural xenophobia has blossomed on the right,
the socially liberal majority of the working class have taken to their own cultural barricades.
....
For some in the labour movement, the words “working class” have come to mean something wholly anachronistic.

When the party chairman, Ian Lavery, barrels around the corridors at Westminster declaring that “the working class wants Brexit”, he means that a section of older, white, former industrial workers in parts of England and Wales want Brexit.

And he is right.
Judging by what they say in focus groups and how loudly they chant “Ni-gel, Ni-gel” at the Brexit rallies,
it is what a section of the working class wants.

Lisa Nandy, the MP for Wigan, argues explicitly that,
no matter how far they have drifted away from Labour’s values of tolerance and internationalism,
pro-Brexit workers in small towns have a some kind of moral veto over the party’s leftward evolution.

She writes that, because they
“come from families who worked in the mining, railway and textile industries to build this country’s prosperity and influence in the world”
and have supported Labour for a century, the party has a “historic duty” to them.

I agree.
We have a historic duty to tell them that xenophobia and anti-migrant racism are a dead end,

just as socialists in London’s East End had to tell this straight to the dockers on the Powellite strikes and marches of 1968.

But our primary historic duty is to represent the actual British workforce of now,
which exists in globally connected manufacturing, services and the public sector,
is concentrated in cities and large towns, is multi-ethnic,
and includes 2.7 million European citizens who don’t get a vote.

These are the workers losing their jobs hand over fist at Bridgend, Swindon and Scunthorpe, due to Brexit,
and in the case of EU migrants, losing any sense of certainty about the future.

Labour’s path to power is to build an alliance of these workers, together with millions of young voters
and, yes, the 41 per cent of the British workforce classed as professional and managerial grades:
the nurses, teachers, aerospace engineers, software designers and people in Britain’s huge cultural sector

Call them “middle class” if you want - but they are the backbone of union membership.

That is where Labour’s mass membership is concentrated.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 12:13

howabout Blair was the most sucessful Labour leader at getting the party into power and keeping it there
Tories tried to demonise him, e.g. the staring eyes advert, but had no success until Iraq
He was destroyed - rightly - over Iraq

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 12:17

He destroyed himself I mean - it wasn't the fault of the rightwing media
The Tories of course played up Iraq as much as they could - they still do

However, he was finished because the left of the party turned against him, along with much of the centre & right

wherearemychickens · 08/07/2019 12:33

I keep being surprised that a NI poll on the backstop hasn't had more traction as a way out to get the withdrawal agreement through.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 12:39

Gauke would jump before BJ pushes him:

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

Boris is going to sack you isn't he?

Gauke: "I suspect I would have gone before then"

#Marr

Motheroffourdragons · 08/07/2019 12:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/07/2019 13:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

prettybird · 08/07/2019 13:14

Kate Hoey is not seeking reelection for Labour .... how about for the DUP? Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 13:20

It was Iraq that made most of his own party turn on him
imo, without Iraq, his majority would have been reduced by the GFC, but Labour would have stayed in power for at least a 4th term
and then the Tories would have turned on Cameron and torn themselves apart

Ah well, I enjoy the occasional alternate history novel in my sci fi bookwormery Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 13:22

and without Tory austerity, there would have been no sigificant demand for Brexit
and of course Labour would not have called a bloody irresponsible ref

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 13:24

I expect she's retiring as an MP, but will still appear on the Telly and when Farage needs a boost

RHTawneyonabus · 08/07/2019 13:43

Great news about Kate Hoey.

I’ve been reading lots on the leak of the US embassy diptels, consensus seems to be that it was a senior Minister or SpAd who leaked them, with the aim of discrediting the ambassador and possibly Sedwill. The plan was apparently to put someone more sympathetic to Brexit and trump in this prize place, possibly even Farage.

May clearly doesn’t like leakers but she’s off in a couple of weeks so even if this person is found will anything be done? Also shows how much the civil service (and this bloke who was only doing his job but probably can no longer do it effectively thanks to this leak) are seen as the enemy now by the right wing of the Tory party.

wheresmymojo · 08/07/2019 13:48

@1tisILeClerc

Not necessarily incorrect. The people behind the door of No 10 are on course to mess up the lives of the children on the step, and probably even their children too.

The Tories on the site were saying that Jess Philips child being involved in the quiet demonstration was child abuse.

As in - she us 'indoctrinating' her child and a result should be charged with child abuse Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 08/07/2019 13:55

{As in - she us 'indoctrinating' her child and a result should be charged with child abuse}

Well in one way it is probably one of the most protected doorsteps in the UK, although there are some suspicious MPs about.

wheresmymojo · 08/07/2019 14:06

Farage hasn't unveiled the 650 BXP candidates yet has he?

Let's hope Kate Hoey doesn't re-emerge!

Peregrina · 08/07/2019 15:42

Has this been posted - the candidates in the Brecon and Radnor by election:

Welsh Conservatives: Chris Davies
Welsh Labour: Tom Davies
Welsh Liberal Democrats: Jane Dodds
Brexit Party: Des Parkinson
UKIP: Liz Phillips
The Official Monster Raving Loony Party: Lady Lily The Pink

Good to see the potential split in the right wing vote with Brexit and Tories. I would be delighted to see Brexit and Tories on a joint second place with significantly fewer votes than the LibDem, so they end up fighting as to who was really to blame for not winning. I would also like to see the Monster Raving Loony Party push UKIP into last place.

Still time for the Brexit candidate to pull out, I imagine.

bellinisurge · 08/07/2019 15:46

@Peregrina finally the anti-Brexit parties have sussed out the importance of not splitting the vote.

Mistigri · 08/07/2019 15:50

Good to see the potential split in the right wing vote with Brexit and Tories.

And the kippers too! The game is on.

Mistigri · 08/07/2019 16:07

Late to the party but I see Hoey is not standing again. For Labour anyway. Wonder which constituency the BXP will find for her?

RedToothBrush · 08/07/2019 16:35

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48912797
Jeffrey Epstein: Financier charged with sex trafficking

If this isn't on your political radar make sure it is.

It's a story that's been rumbling around for a long time and could suck in a lot of high profile American and British figures.

If it goes big, it's going to cause major political shock waves.

Epstein seems to feature in a lot of news articles if this twitter thread is much to go by.
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1098981194283151360.html

It could be used by either the left or right to discredit the other rather than get to the bottom of whatever went on.

OP posts:
Iambuffy · 08/07/2019 16:36

Hmmm.
Big mates with prince andrew...

RedToothBrush · 08/07/2019 16:52

Yeah...

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wheresmymojo · 08/07/2019 16:55

The thing that knocks me really sick is that he was enabled by employees and associates. It's bad enough to think that vile lone wolf types exist but it's gruesome when it turns out to be more than that.

I assume Trump made this quote some time ago...I'm wondering whether it was before or after he'd been caught the first time?

"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy," Mr Trump was quoted as saying in the New York Magazine profile. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

wheresmymojo · 08/07/2019 16:56

I suspect there are a few high powered men shitting themselves today.