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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 24/06/2019 17:44

My suspicion over the 'no deal' poll is that it's rather more complex than it suggests. I suspect it reflects at least three camps who have said they support no deal

Does that adjust for the baseline number that equate no deal with not leaving ?

Peregrina · 24/06/2019 17:46

There is something a bit surreal to being expected to provide competent, thought out, verifiable and truthful 'discussion items' on what is essentially a women's chat forum whereas the two candidates for the PM job are allowed to spout anything that comes into their heads.

I would like to see an admission from Leavers that their vote was for more money for the NHS, if it was, and then tell us if they are happy with the situation in their local NHS at present. OK we haven't left yet, but if they are finding it difficult to get appointments because EU staff are leaving then at least I would want them to say that this wasn't what they thought would happen and they are annoyed.

Or Sovereignty - which Law? And not a Law which the UK proposed or decided to add extra bits onto. (E.g. we were told EU law didn't allow exit polls for EU elections - blown out of the water when the Dutch published their exit poll - so our 'no opinion polls allowed' was a UK embellishment, as an example which immediately springs to mind.)

OublietteBravo · 24/06/2019 17:55

OMG - how did I miss an entire thread? PMK on this one before it happens again!

1tisILeClerc · 24/06/2019 18:00

OublietteBravo
Through the mysterious properties of Brexit, in your 'absence' you have simultaneously missed loads and nothing!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 18:01

I'd rather get away from continually trying to corner ordinary Leavers and instead ask what their aims / wishes are now

Can we find common ground - it maybe possible with those who aren't No Dealers / GATT A24 fantasists

We are where we are, the referendum happened and "I wouldn't start from here" isn't helpful

LonelyTiredandLow · 24/06/2019 18:02

Welcome back @Louise. Perhaps there is confusion between "I just want to Leave" and not knowing the detail and voting for it regardless? Grin I'll not poke the nest again though.

Not looking forward to the oncoming rain (2 months worth in 2 days by some reports!) and following heatwave here either. All of the drains along our hill haven't been cleared which creates a giant water run into town which then floods. False economy of not manning the drains I fear. Thankfully I live at the top of the hill Grin.

ComeAndDance · 24/06/2019 18:04

PMK

Iambuffy · 24/06/2019 18:06

Time to get the choc ices in, folks
🍫🍦

1tisILeClerc · 24/06/2019 18:06

OK, a little break from Brexit:
{A suspected lingerie thief has been caught out after stripping down in a luxury department store and allegedly trying to steal underwear - in full view of the public.}
Harvey Nichols in Manchester.

NoWordForFluffy · 24/06/2019 18:17

Where are you, Lonely? We don't have that forecast. We've had a shit load of rain recently though. It's rather sultry here this evening and the forecast has definitely improved looking ahead. Here comes summer!

LonelyTiredandLow · 24/06/2019 18:17

Slightly related to Brexit, with those waiting in the wings, another funny 'news' story about sharks enjoying Jazz and linking it to food Shock

LonelyTiredandLow · 24/06/2019 18:20

NoWord am in SE - have a yellow weather warning for thunderstorms tonight and tomorrow...eep! Then it's meant to be incredibly hot for the rest of the week.

NoWordForFluffy · 24/06/2019 18:22

We had that warning for yesterday / today but they cancelled it! It was just heavy rain overnight and now it's gorgeous.

woman19 · 24/06/2019 18:35

The sun is out in Istanbul, and hopefully Erdogan is too. Smile
www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/24/erdogan-reaction-opposition-historic-win-istanbul-mayor-ekrem-imamoglu

I love the heat......sorry.

Can we find common ground
Lovely thought; I'd like that almost more than anything.

Iambuffy · 24/06/2019 18:39

I cant do heat.
It makes me cranky and upset.
I like about 18 degrees and a nice soft drizzle ;)

ElenadeClermont · 24/06/2019 18:40

So muggy here. We had some torrential rain and weather warning, but still hot. I cannot find the local paper's forecast though, because it is just blanket coverage of Rafa Benitez leaving.

Max Hastings does not mince his words about Johnson in the Guardian:

I was Boris Johnson’s boss: he is utterly unfit to be prime minister

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

1tisILeClerc · 24/06/2019 18:43

{I like about 18 degrees and a nice soft drizzle ;)}
Especially the lemon sort!

Apileofballyhoo · 24/06/2019 18:51

Through the mysterious properties of Brexit, in your 'absence' you have simultaneously missed loads and nothing!

So very true.

LouiseCollins28 · 24/06/2019 18:53

Can we find common ground? Mmmmmm, that rather depends what people are prepared to concede doesn’t it? I’ll go first, I am prepared to agree to the restrictions of the Withdrawal Agreement deal though there are bits of it I don’t like. I think I’d also be prepared to concede to a transitional period of customs union membership. Over to you.

Icantreachthepretzels · 24/06/2019 19:01

You'e already voted to insist that we concede our European citizenship and rights. What more do you want us to give up?

Bearbehind · 24/06/2019 19:03

louise Remainers are conceding already in that we have the best possible deal already.

Whatever we get is a concession, seemingly just because of immigration, which we didn’t have an issue with anyway.

1tisILeClerc · 24/06/2019 19:05

Why should people who voted to remain give up anything at all?

Bearbehind · 24/06/2019 19:11

louise you never did say what his was all for - what you want to gain from leaving?

grannycake · 24/06/2019 19:12

best. She is fab but I don't think I can take another 5 year parliament telling me I voted for Brexit. But realistically if I don't vote for her we will get a Tory. What a mess

borntobequiet · 24/06/2019 19:14

I think a number of us would have accepted the WA despite being unhappy with it, because least worst and so on. And given that we won’t get any trade talks without signing up to much of its content, that’s how it will be, unless we Revoke or PV. Who will do that?
The only people who really object to the backstop are hard Brexiters like the ERG and DUP (even though the DUP must be fully aware of the harm that would be caused without it). No one else gives a stuff, so as soon as someone comes along who can persuade them and their media supporters to STFU, the new incarnation of the WA will be signed and we as a country will go into the slow decline that it entails.