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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 15:59

They need to look like they are working at their day job, but not that they are panicking

However, if the govt think No Deal likely, they probably will need Parliamentary timeto bring in some more enabling legislation for that.

steve hawkes@steve_hawkes

EXCL Conference recess could be axed as panicked Tory chiefs rush to create more Parliamentary time before Oct 31st

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9382504/mps-holiday-end-brexit-deadlock/

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 16:03

Another poll showing that voters as a whole - as distinct from just Tory members - slightly favour Hunt

Good. That's cause even more dilemmas ... do they go for the Brexit busting Boris ... or the Corbyn crushing Hunt ? It's a terrible 21st Tory version of the questioning of Joan of Arc ... do you believe in Brexit more that you believe in beating Corbyn ?

Let this be a lesson to all other political parties. If you repeated try and dodge, hide, distract, and paper over ideological discussions in the pursuit of power, then may all your birthdays, Christmases and whatever other festivals you celebrate come at once.

I'm wondering what's spinning inside Theresa Mays mind, as she watches Boris - most avowedly living an unChristian life - triumphing over herself ? Given she's mentioned her faith more than once as guiding her in politics.

Peregrina · 27/06/2019 16:13

Next GE date?

Well, Parliament won't sit from 25th July for what, six weeks?
Then we need 25 working days in which to call a GE, but Parliament is back for a week or so and are then into the Conference Season - LibDems weekend of 14th, Labour 21st and Tories 29th The Conference Centres, Caterers, display stalls, accommodation and all the other paraphenalia that goes with a Conference will have been booked and will only be cancelled at a cost, so I doubt if anyone would want to do that without good reason.

Working backwards from the 25 working days, to say have a GE on 31st October that would clash with the Tory Conference so they would really have to call the GE in the first week of September. But it's no longer in the PM's Gift and Parliament would have to agree. Would they do so, if they saw it was just expediency on Johnson and Hunts account?

But, but, suppose Johnson gets elected on 22nd July. Corbyn calls an immediate Confidence vote and Johnson loses. What happens to the two weeks when they try to find an alternative? Does this also get suspended until Parliament is back or do they get recalled?

Anyway, I will stake a guess on Thursday 7 November. Although Tuesday 5th would have more symbolic resonence!

Peregrina · 27/06/2019 16:14

And of course, neither Johnson, Corbyn or whoever might command a majority.

Peregrina · 27/06/2019 16:22

And I was busy typing this as BigChoc was posting about creating extra Parliamentary time.

1tisILeClerc · 27/06/2019 16:25

{Well, Parliament won't sit from 25th July for what, six weeks?}

Well I'm just glad there is nothing important going on at the moment.

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 16:27

I cant understand why all this is taking so long. If your a dyed in the wool card carrying Conservative you know by now what they both stand for - they have had that one debate and the online one and a few interviews - the hustings will only go over old ground and Boris 66 percent in the lead! its been dragging on for a while, there are only two to choose from after all. if you dont like either, spoil your vote.

i wish they would cut out all the speculations and just do the vote in and get someone in charge really soon. then they can deal with brexit and some other work before they go off to on holiday. time is running out on the extension.

1tisILeClerc · 27/06/2019 16:27

{The Conference Centres, Caterers, display stalls, accommodation and all the other paraphenalia that goes with a Conference will have been booked and will only be cancelled at a cost,}

Maybe see if there are a couple of tents that aren't too wrecked after Glasto? £50 should cover it.

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 16:30

yes to gathering up the tents at Glastonbury on monday morning for the conferences instead of them all going to landfill or wherever they end up. ( i think they should all take them home with them really!)
a sweaty mud ruined tent is all a lot of them deserve.

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 16:35

There was a minutely detailed discussion on the (moderated - so spam and moron-free) uk legal usenet newsgroup over the implications of the FTPA and calling elections/votes of confidence/"commanding the confidence of the house".

Some very able brains (lawyers among them) were citing interesting contradictory and ambiguous interpretations of various sections when read alongside various sources of guidance traditionally consulted. The overall message is that things are incredibly delicate and as-yet-undefined, and there's plenty of ways things could get very messy. The roles of the Cabinet Secretary and Privy council for a start.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 16:36

peregrina Even if Parliament is due to go into recess right after JC wins the NC vote,
the 14 days to find a new govt / PM still stand

I would expect under those circumstances that Parliament would then immediately cancel its recess / postpone it

So, maybe an incentive not to pass the NC, if they want their hols ! Grin

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 16:37

I cant understand why all this is taking so long.

Presumably because it's what's set out in the Tory party handbook ?

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 16:39

DG, i do understand there is a process here and they have to do it this way, but honestly, we are living in desperate times regarding brexit , surely they could change the rules a bit?
i am sure a lot of business owners are not happy at the delays.

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 16:44

DG, i do understand there is a process here and they have to do it this way, but honestly, we are living in desperate times regarding brexit , surely they could change the rules a bit?

Don't ask me, I'm not a Tory ...

Not sure why the rush ... We have a PM, we have a government.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 16:46

and we HAD 6 months extension:

"Don't waste it"

Tick tock

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 16:47

hmm, okay, but i just think its all a waste of everyones time!
if it were labour or any other party delaying everything like this they would be flamed.

bellinisurge · 27/06/2019 16:48

Cat has given up. Luckily for her she has people to attend to her wishes.

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun
BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 16:51

Top civil servants fleeing to avoid the blame for a No Deal disaster ? Hmm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/27/brexit-civil-servant-in-charge-of-no-deal-planning-quits

The top government official in charge of no-deal Brexitt* planning has quit just as the chances of crashing out of the EU appear to have increased.

Tom Shinner, 33, director of policy and delivery coordination at the Department for Exiting the EU, was in charge of coordinating the domestic policy implications of Brexit across government departments to ensure a smooth exit from the EU.

His departure comes hot on the heels after Karen Wheeler, the official in charge of “frictionless” Brexit borderr* planning

^ including emergency plans for Dover and Northern Ireland in the event of no deal,^
left her post in Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs.
......
A former aide to the ex-Brexit secretary David Davis once said Shinner was so pivotal to no-deal planning that if he left his job Brexit would not happen.

“There is actually a Mr Big of no deal in Whitehall, very clever and very well paid,
who was so integral to the process we joked that if he was hit by a No 53 bus on Parliament Square, Brexit wouldn’t happen!”

former Conservative Party MP Stewart Jackson wrote in the Times in an article sources said was a reference to Shinner.

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 16:56

I wonder if Russian websites and papers are carrying adverts for jobs as "Brexit advisors" to Boris ?

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 16:57

Verhofstadt savages BJ & Hunt

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/27/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-claims-rubbished-guy-verhofstadt

Boris Johnson’s claims about the prospects of rewriting the Brexit deal have been compared by the European parliament’s Brexitt^ coordinator to the “false promises, pseudo-patriotism and foreigner-bashing” he is said to have used to win the EU referendum.

The suggestion from the Conservative leadership frontrunner that he will be able to dump Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement, withhold the UK’s £39bn divorce bill and still negotiate a free-trade deal in Brussels was savaged by Guy Verhofstadt.

The former prime minister of Belgium said Johnson’s assertion during the current leadership campaign was a myth.

In a withering assessment of the race between Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, who also claims he will be able to renegotiate the deal,
Verhofstadt said it appeared they had “learned nothing whatsoever”.

< sadly, he is right >

Cherrypi · 27/06/2019 17:00

33? Seems a bit young for that responsibility.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 17:00

A very pretty puss, bellini
If she were here in nearly 40C, eaten alive by mosquitos, she'd have something to grumble about Grin

As it is, she's training you well - "slave, bring more tuna !"

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 17:06

33? Seems a bit young for that responsibility.

Indicative of how far away the senior talent wants to be when it all goes pear shaped.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 17:15

33 is young enough to get a great CV and old enough to know when to run and use it

NoWordForFluffy · 27/06/2019 17:27

Meanwhile Boris is threatening/promising to fire any cabinet minsters that refuse to back a no-deal Brexit ...

Interesting tactic. He may find even more defectors willing to bring the government down by doing that!