Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Clavinova · 27/06/2019 13:09

Has anyone noticed the Mumsnet/supermarket survey that's been running across the screen over the last few months? The bar chart is more leave than remain now - it was definitely the other way around a month ago.

bellinisurge · 27/06/2019 13:10

@Clavinova , the "let's get rid of red tape" is a standard line from politicians and means little when you drill down. For example, data protection is always described as red tape - despite the fact we had UK legislation about it since 1984 - and they are usually the first to whine about getting texts and emails from random companies . If we don't have data protection legislation that is satisfactory for the EU we don't get what is called "adequacy" and it is much harder for UK businesses to operate online internationally. Non- EU countries have changed their laws in order to obtain data protection adequacy from the EU.
We have implemented revised EU data protection law - and hope this will be enough to give us "adequacy " quickly. But BeLeavers whining about red tape probably want to get rid of it. Which not only makes it harder for UK businesses to operate online internationally, it makes us less attractive to foreign companies investing in business in the UK.

Peregrina · 27/06/2019 13:10

Ed: says that "we wouldn’t have a third referendum. A second referendum with the extra information that we know now would be final."

But if knowing what the true Brexit deal was and the Leave vote won, he is IMO saying OK, we have to go along with that.

Whether it can now put the Brexit issue to bed I think is debatable. The EU wasn't a big deal in most people's lives until Cameron's referendum. Had Cameron been as smart as Harold Wilson was when he held the 1975 one, he (Cameron) would have known to stand back. He didn't so it became partly a Referendum on his Premiership and Austerity, and it meant the the Remain case couldn't be put convincingly, because how could Cameron lead a Campaign which said the EU has done good things which we in Westminster just won't do unless we are dragged kicking and screaming to do them?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 27/06/2019 13:12

Has anyone noticed the I Mumsnet/supermarket survey that's been running across the screen over the last few months? The bar chart is more leave than remain now - it was definitely the other way around a month ago^

I’ve totally missed this. Where do you find it?

1tisILeClerc · 27/06/2019 13:18

{ EU regulations have more influence than you think.}

Absolutely, but if the UK wants to trade with the EU then the 'red tape' is there waiting. If the UK wants to trade with the USA, oh look, red tape. The only way to minimise it is to have as wide a trade and regulatory area as possible. Arguably there would be common standards worldwide, but that will never happen.
To a fair extent 'red tape' is what makes trading between countries possible. The UK being 'out' of Europe will either have to harmonise with the USA, or have dual systems.

Clavinova · 27/06/2019 13:20

Has anyone noticed the I Mumsnet/supermarket survey
I’ve totally missed this.Where do you find it?

It randomly appears on my screen a few times a day.

DGRossetti
Are you giving us carte blanche to ignore all the laws that might be introduced by a future Labour government if we don't agree with them?

TheABC · 27/06/2019 13:20

Out of interest, how long do party leaders stick around for? Could Corbyn be forced out now, or is Labour stuck with him for the foreseeable future?

There appears to be a lot of frustration, but nothing like a leadership challenge at the top level of the party.

Clavinova · 27/06/2019 13:24

bellinisurge 1tisILeClerc
I can only repeat that the EU were aiming to reduce red tape by 31% a few years ago - but if you don't think unnecessary red tape is a problem then there's not much more I can add.

WhatdoImean · 27/06/2019 13:26

Interesting point on the EU red tape, except for one point. We are still going to be trading with the EU. We will still need to comply with all this red tape. However, we will have lost the opportunity to actually control and influence the red tape if we leave.

As such, am scratching my head on this, as to how it benefits us as part of trade?

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 13:28

The ones that surround Jeremy Corbyn seem in awe of him - the ones that don't like him or his policies seem to be in the back ground not doing much! why cant they get shot of people like the conservatives do? they are far more calculating in their approach when the chips are down ( historically speaking) but labour seem to let their leaders limp on and on when they all know that he will never win an election.
i dont like writing all these things about the party by the way, but i am old and this how i see it at the moment.

They need new blood in order to get any where.

they should be miles ahead and they are not. they need to be centre left. they have to appeal to Tory voters ( somehow) and business leaders.

they seem to be floundering around when they should be out for the kill.

Ellie56 · 27/06/2019 13:34

Didn't the Labour Party try to get rid of JC before?

Peregrina · 27/06/2019 13:38

What really did for Brexit was a General Election which left us with a parliament almost mirroring the 52/48 split in the referendum.

And insufficient numbers believed in May's version of a hard Brexit. A more perceptive PM might have used that to row back a little and go for a softer Brexit. Even so, there are still the hard right ERG types to contend with.

I don't know what the solution is there - get people to vote some of the idiots out.

1tisILeClerc · 27/06/2019 13:40

{I can only repeat that the EU were aiming to reduce red tape by 31% a few years ago - but if you don't think unnecessary red tape is a problem then there's not much more I can add.}

Leavers thought the UK were going to have 'left' the EU the day after the referendum in 2016. So far the UK government of any flavour can't be truthful and say how bad it really will be for the UK to actually go ahead and do it. This is precisely why there is so much buggering about.
The 'red tape' issue for the EU is not just about the EU but every country in the world is involved to a greater or lesser extent by the implications of very tiny change by the goods/services that are traded.
To suggest that it would be 'quick' is a complete failure to understand the complexities of planet earth.
Pick any commodity, say a tea bag, and consider all the standards it has to comply with, from the pesticides used where the tea plants are growing, the 'cleanliness' of the machinery used to cut and dry the leaves, to the materials used in making the teabag itself to permitted driving hours of the truck driver that takes it to your supermarket.

howabout · 27/06/2019 13:47

TheABC my personal theory is that JC is just sticking around long enough to inch out the backbench Blairites and embed the next generation - Rebecca Long Bailey, Cat Smith, Angela Rayner etc. Andy Burnham off in Manchester is insulated from lots of the current wrangling and so still would have the potential as a "moderate" rather than a hard line Leftie. Not sure what RedEd's long term game plan is and whether his bro really does see or want a way back?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 27/06/2019 13:47

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-brexit-labour-second-referendum-corbyn-watson-a8977091.html%3famp

Apparently Diane Abbot is “beginning to worry about Labours Brexit strategy”

Beginning to worry! For fucks sakes.

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 13:50

I suppose that the labour party have the same problem as the Cons that certain types will infiltrate the party in order to get the ' right' leader ( for them anyway!) with social media and the internet in general its easier than ever to sign up to join things or get involved without having to go outside the door in some cases!

Icantreachthepretzels · 27/06/2019 13:52

The bar chart is more leave than remain now - it was definitely the other way around a month ago.

Yes I noticed that - it was in the sidebar about a week ago. Then it closed itself down and opened in the banner at the top. This time remain was winning. I also noticed that on the poll where leave was winning the options were 'leave' 'remain' 'don't know' - but on the poll where remain was winning the choices were 'leave' 'remain' 'don't care' ... which struck me as rather odd.
I hate to burst your bubble clavinova but I don't think that bar chart is entirely on the up and up. It's just an advert. Though what with psyops and targeted ads it might be interesting to know a bit more of it's background - seeming as it has definitely swung towards leave. And based on the changes to poll with remain winning ... I don't think it's the people answering who have swung (because I don't think the data is real), it's the people responsible for the ad.

lonelyplanetmum · 27/06/2019 13:53

Just about sums it up from the New European...

On Brexit's side is Geoffrey Boycott.

On Remain's side is the Dalai Lama.

Sigh.

The80sweregreat · 27/06/2019 13:55

Most people did not / do not like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown, but TB did win elections - centre left policies with a nod to businesses big and small seem to hit a note ( even if it all goes wrong elsewhere)
people will sit up and listen., saying your going to tax everyone all the time or take their house from them or most things written in the daily mail does not help matters of course, as people just read headlines and rarely look behind them or the polices.

Diane Abbot has finally woken up then about brexit? only took her 3 years! lets hope some of the others start to worry as well. they need more clarity.

DGRossetti · 27/06/2019 14:01

DGRossetti Are you giving us carte blanche to ignore all the laws that might be introduced by a future Labour government if we don't agree with them?

No. I said what I said. Which wasn't that. If you want to believe it's what I said, then what was the point of me saying what I actually said ?

ContinuityError · 27/06/2019 14:06

Brecon and Radnorshire by-election set for 1st August.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48777219

Clavinova · 27/06/2019 14:10

lonelyplanetmum
Just about sums it up from the New European...
On Brexit's side is Geoffrey Boycott. On Remain's side is the Dalai Lama.Sigh.

I watched an interview recording with the Dalai Lama last night.
He thinks a female Dalai Lama is a distinct possibility - but only if she's young and attractive - he hunched his shoulders, put his head to one side and pulled an ugly face - to demonstrate how undesirable an old and unattractive female Dalai Lama would look. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 27/06/2019 14:11

Red tape is a problem in all countries, all large institutions and all businesses that I know !

The UK has always been one of the strongest advocates for members keeping their national veto on as many issues as possible.
That has consequences

Having to get agreement from 28 countries to proceed on some matters does slow things down, but imo allows valuable time for more reflection
e.g. rejecting TTIP

Many EU members have said that the UK usually blocking and slowing down business gives everyone time to think again - but is sometimes very frustrating.

I find the EU system of taking the time to build consensus among member nations more democratic than the UK system of England dominating Scotland, NI, Wales

howabout · 27/06/2019 14:14

Speaking of RedEd the original Captain of the Coalition of Chaos has done his very own tribute to Captain Chaos' Bus of Cheerfulness to advertise his Reasons to be Cheerful Event.

(sorry, can't work out the link but worth tracking down on ReasonstobeCheerful twitter feed Grin JC doing impressions of Boris is also worth tracking down Grin

howabout · 27/06/2019 14:16

twitter.com/GeoffLloyd/status/1143852197958082565

(checking if I can master a new skill - so wish MN had an edit button)