"I told you so...." (pt. 94)

[MockerstheFeManist]

Bridgend plant to close.

All you Welsh Brexit voters, happy now? The days of the internal combustion engine are drawing to a close. The future is electricity and hydrogen fuel cells. The investment will go where the markets are largest and most stable.

Brexit is a lot like climate change: You cannot attribute any single economic event exclusively to it, but it means there will be more of them more often and they will be more severe.

Nissan and Toyota workers, be very afraid.

The only 'sweeping reform' I can see necessary for the NHS is for the UK government to look at it as an asset and that every effort is made to make the experience of the vast majority of it's users as 'seamless' as possible.
Doctors, surgeons, nurses and ambulance drivers know their jobs and they also know where the pressure points are that make their life more difficult, and the 'experience' of the user more problematic.
Competition is where you kick a ball about for fun in the park, the NHS is the organisation that (should) be aiming to make all in the UK healthy and happy.

The only 'sweeping reform' I can see necessary for the NHS is for the UK government to look at it as an asset and that every effort is made to make the experience of the vast majority of it's users as 'seamless' as possible

But they are not doing that are they? so we sit and wait and wait and wait and the waiting lists get longer and longer and longer.

And leaving the EU is going to help how?

It's not going to help, but the EU are not going to reform or fund it for us either and I wouldn't expect them to. They can provide staff but you are working on the assumption that EU nationals in 10 years time are going to want to come and work in a system that is over stretched and underfunded.

Which is kind of my whole point about taking the politics out of it because in addition it's now being used as a football for Brexit . Cheap medicine and a healthy bank of workers is not enough, however, it's a rather convenient political argument currently utilised to the max by both Leave and Remain.

Anyway, that's now two pages of completely off topic so I'm going to leave it there (if I can ).

{But they are not doing that are they? so we sit and wait and wait and wait and the waiting lists get longer and longer and longer.}

Pulling this away from being NHS specific, the EU creates a framework for trade and regulations that all within the EU can work to. The health services, and indeed many other industries are not controlled by the EP. The EP tries to urge 'best practice' as far as possible and with mechanisms like redevelopment funds and initiatives to encourage cross border cooperation, such as Erasmus and the possibilities of cheap travel.
There are relatively few activities any individual country HAS to do, as proposed by the EP.

Time A RC would achieve the sq root of SFA.

If you have a situation where everyone acknowledges the NHS is short of 40000 nurses, you don't need to be snorting coke to realise how to solve that.

As for the EU not funding UK healthcare? Well, Kent has just opened the UK's first Dementia Hotel, an idea they got from the Dutch, they then accessed EU funding to pay for it....... a funding stream we will lose.
& please don't tell me the UK Govt will replace this money because we all know they wont.

The loss of EU medical staff means we will have to get them from developing countries instead... an immoral situation.

We have a shortage of nurses because once they have finished training many go to work abroad. Also they are not treated well by the NHS. Why would we no longer have nurses from EU countries? Can they not apply to work here just as others from around the world do? So long as they can speak and understand English I can't see it matters where they come from? Oh, and if we are no longer in EU we as a country will have more money as we will not be giving it away to fund other countries. One more thing once we are out of the EU we will not have people from EU countries coming here just to use our health service, Yes I do know most are from outside of EU but not all....every little helps (or not when it comes to EU)

EU immigrants as a group are net contributors, fewer of them means lower tax revenue for services and the falling revenue is not matched by falling demand.

@Suwi
If we leave the EU or economy will shrink so we'll have less money, not more unfortunately.

Suwi
Apart from being woefully uneducated, you are not far off being racist in your attitudes.
Countries within the EU have reciprocal healthcare arrangements, hence the ability of UK citizens to carry an EHIC card which entitles you to emergency treatment in other European countries.

I find posters like suwi thoroughly depressing.

They simply haven’t dug any further than the rhetoric they read during the referendum campaign 3 years ago have they 🤔

Suwi

Might have escaped your notice but many EU workers, inc nurses, no longer want to work in the UK, you want to know why?

Because of people like you.

Just wanted to reinforce the point that it is a myth that non U.K. citizens put a strain on the NHS. This myth has been deceitfully encouraged by politicians.

• We were ( past tense) the fifth richest country in the world and yet successive U.K. governments have underfunded the NHS.

•EU citizens have always been greater net contributors to the UK economy- more than those native born.

• The chronic loss of NHS staff due to Brexit has achieved what the right wing politicians wanted- shrinking services. Understaffing is a perfect excuse to shrink free NHS services and gradually introduce a payment based system (like in the US). For example having a baby there, costs $10,808 -$30,000. Put that on the side of s bus.

{For example having a baby there, costs $10,808 -$30,000. Put that on the side of a bus.}

With the UK having (had ? I don't know current situation) one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in Europe, where are they going to get that sort of money from?

"It’s nearly impossible to put a price tag on giving birth in America, since costs vary dramatically by state and hospital. But one 2013 study by the the advocacy group Childbirth Connection found that, on average, hospitals charged $32,0933^ for an uncomplicated vaginal birth and newborn care, and $51,125 for a standard caesarean section and newborn care. Insurance typically covers a large chunk of those costs, but families are still often on the hook for thousands of dollars."

Those are 2013 figures btw.

And don't even consider having multiples or a premature baby.

Strange that you sort think your way is the only way and any other view MUST be wrong or stupid or uneducated... you are making assumptions about a person you have no knowledge of.

{Strange that you sort think your way is the only way and any other view MUST be wrong or stupid or uneducated... you are making assumptions about a person you have no knowledge of.}

I don't know if I class as 'that sort' or any other sort but in 3 years NOT ONE leaver/Brexiteer has managed to come up with any sort of plan where the UK will stand a chance of being better off or even just maintaining the status quo.
From the billions that are being spent now on 'preparation' to the failure to even start to address the fundamental issues behind Brexit, NOTHING suggests anything will be better and the fact the economy and jobs are suffering before the UK leaves strongly suggests things will not go well.
The UK COULD leave (or rather could have if started in the correct way) by accepting it will be a 10 - 15 year process and involves a lot of very complex negotiations with the EU.
Thus far the UK hasn't even managed to establish the 'rules' in 3 years and is already in the shit.

It is difficult to think of 'Leavers' in a positive light when after 3 years they haven't really grasped what 'leaving' means.
Rather than reading the Daily Fail and sticking your fingers in your ears, try engaging your brain and consider what the impacts that have been suggested will actually do to the UK economy and the lives of all as a result.
As a starter, food is likely to take a 10%* leap in price, will your household survive that? what will you be sacrificing to accommodate this?

*A likely result of defaulting to basic WTO rules and tariffs.

Strange that you sort think your way is the only way and any other view MUST be wrong or stupid or uneducated... you are making assumptions about a person you have no knowledge of.

But every comment you’ve made on this thread is completely lacking in substance and shows that abslutley no critical thinking has occurred.

If you honestly believe we will have more money outside the EU despite losing frictionless access to the worlds largest trading bloc in return for gaining the 0.7% of our GDP we spend on the EU, please explain why?

People's posting history often tells us quite a lot about them, eg we are entitled to draw the conclusion that a poster with a history of goady racist posts might just be a bit of a bigot.

Peregrina
So 1200 office jobs will replace 5000 steel workers jobs will they?

I've just remembered - I intended to reply on Friday morning but I didn't have time.

It's not 1,200 office jobs being created - Wren Kitchens are building a new factory;

“The new factory demonstrates our commitment to manufacturing in the UK and particularly the Humber Region."

"Aside from the 1,200 new manufacturing roles, Wren will also be creating new positions in IT development, engineering, customer service and product development to keep pace with growing customer demand."

British Steel may yet be saved;
British Steel 'has 80 potential bidders'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48439202

A £200 million energy park has also been proposed - hoping to create over 4,000 jobs;
yorkshire-energy-park.co.uk/
www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/energy-park-4000-jobs-yes-2104414

The Yorkshire energy park currently doesn't have planning permission, individual examples of investment also don't counter the examples of investment not happening because of brexit.

"Hoping to create up to 4800 jobs...."

Is that once finished? inc construction?

What has happened down here is that these mega schemes with the rich promise of jobs, ends up be scaled back, construction done by outside contractors, jobs moved around....

So lets hope its all good, however, this scheme would have happened or not, regardless of Brexit.

You have still not showed the increased investment and jobs due specifically to UK leaving the EU.

Also, none of those investments appear to be happening because of Brexit yet Brexit is definitely a factor in divestments which are occurring.

You have still not showed the increased investment and jobs due specifically to UK leaving the EU.

That's obvious - we haven't left the EU.

But businesses can clearly be shown to be not investing in the UK because of brexit.

But businesses can clearly be shown to be not investing in the UK because of Brexit.

Brexit 'uncertainty' is being blamed yes.

{Brexit 'uncertainty' is being blamed yes.}
Since the UK will be 'going it alone' what the hell is everyone waiting for? The UK should have been investing and planning new activities over the last 3 years, not waiting for godot.