What referendum question?

[RandomlyChosenName]

With around half the country wanting a second referendum on Brexit, what question should be asked that is a fair question?

What happens if leave wins again (which is a possibility as the other half of the country supports it)?

Bearing in mind these difficulties with a referendum- and I don’t buy that “campaign better” will work now people are so entrenched- why is this the focus of all the Remain parities? Why isn’t anyone saying “Brexit is undeliverable, so we we would revoke Article 50”?

How do you know half the country want a second referendum? Source?

It’s an assumption based on how people voted at the EU Parliament elections and on the petition.

The withdrawal agreement is politically dead, and it's not an equal referendum to offer the status quo vs the unicorns of your personal choosing. Given the current deadlines, I'd:

1. Withdraw art.50
2. Set up a citizens assembly to work out what type of brexit would be best
3. Have a referendum on leave or remain, based on citizens assembly conclusions
4. If leave wins, trigger art.50 and negotiate both withdrawal agreement and future relationship - EU will have to accept that these go together.
5. Confirmatory referendum
6. Breathe sigh of relief

Interesting, so no immediate second referendum then (and two potential referendums is a bit daunting!) But how would you choose a citizens assembly and isn’t that essentially what Parliament is meant to be?

That's the 6-billion dollar question, isn't it?

1. Re-run previous referendum
   A) Stay in
   B) Leave

2. negotiate a deal, but stay if deal isn't liked
   A) Stay in
   B) leave with

3. negotiate a deal, but if deal isn't liked leave anyway
   A) leave with
   B) leave with no deal

4. Some kind of transferrable vote between
   A) Stay
   B) leave with
   C) leave with no deal

Well, considering that there will be little in the way of new negotiations until a new EU commision is in place and that No-Deal can't or won't get through the HoC...what indeed would be the questions?
Even if ND was on the 'paper and chosen, over what timescale? the issues with no-deal (esp GFA) do not change just because the public want it or BJ says he'll deliver it.

I suspect we'll ask for another extension and be refused, forcing Parliament/Govt into leaving without any sort of deal or Revoke.

I just cannot see another referendum taking place, too many policians have staked their reputations on not allowing another vote.

I just cannot see another referendum taking place, too many policians have staked their reputations on not allowing another vote

I think it’s more likely than another GE (in the short term). The Parliamentary arithmetic gives no majority for anything, so Parliament can’t pass anything.
Neither Labour nor the Tories want a general election as that would be political suicide for them.

I think littleoaks plan is the most sensible. Withdraw article 50 and have a new referendum- but one where it’s stated what Leave actually means.

Withdraw A50 and another referendum? that 'll never happen.

It destroys the Tory party, the ERG and party members won't believe we would actually have another vote, also, if Leave was chosen (and on what basis?) we are just back to square one.

What is required is leadership, someone who can make the argument that leaving is a very bad idea and win over a majority... this is where Labour have let the UK down so badly.

Farage is not going to stop should we leave with no-deal, he'll blame the economic disaster on the incumbent Govt and he will seek to win in the next GE, with more simplistic solutions to our problems.

Withdraw A50 and another referendum. That will never happen

I said it would be sensible not that I think it will happen I think you are right. No Tory will withdraw Article 50, although I bloody well wish they would.

What is required is leadership, someone who can make the argument that leaving is a very bad idea and win over a majority... this is where Labour have let the UK down so badly

Definitely agree with you on Labours god awful position on Brexit. But who on Earth is this amazing Leader, who can convince Leaver MPs that the U.K. stay in the EU?

I actually think Boris Johnson might be the most likely to pull off “selling” Remain to Parliament and the country. But it would be a tough sell, even for that snake oil salesman.

I've long held the view that once the result of the referendum was clear, an all-party working group should have taken over every aspect of it. This is not a party political matter - it's a constitutional matter that has now become a constitutional crisis. Once it becomes the reality, it is not something that can be repealed under the next government.
It should never have been in the remit of one PM plus cronies to deliver Brexit in any shape or form.
So the question should be:- shall we chuck the whole caboodle out and start afresh?
The whole effing country forgot the old adage of measure twice, cut once.

And yes, TarragonSauce is available for hire should you have an vacant soapbox that you want occupying. Mates rates ofc.

3 Options:

• May's Deal
• No Deal
• No Brexit (Revoke A50)

Supplementary vote, you mark your preferences 1 & 2

If no option receives 50% +1 of first choices, third most popular choice is eliminated and those second preferences added to the other two.

Should we have referenda?

When will the Third EU referendum take place ?

How long should a Salmond / Sturgeon generation last?

So many questions..

I am a supporter of revoke - though I think there might be a better chance of a 2nd ref. Revoke, despite the fact that nothing but brexit has been tried for three years and it is clearly a failure, is too open to claims that the will of the people has been denied, by those refusing to see that the will of the people has simply failed.

If there is another referendum, then there is no point including any leave option which is not clearly defined (and that includes no deal - OK leave without a deal... then what? are we working towards a deal or turning our backs on Europe forever? What does this deal look like? what if we can't get it? what if we don't like what we do get? What do we do about NI in the meantime? The EU will have to put up a border to protect the single market - how prepared are we to deal with the rise of terrorism, both in NI and in GB?). Any vague 'leave - and we'll sort the details out later' option - which currently includes no deal - just lands us back in this same mess, where Parliament can't agree what leave should look like.
But unfortunately, in the event of offering a deal as the leave option (or even just the W.A) that can't be something that the UK government cooks up by itself - because it is not in their gift to deliver it, a deal is between two parties. Any leave deal will already have to have been agreed by the EU - leavers will be voting to take the scraps the EU will throw us ... not exactly taking back control (hence why leave was so poorly defined originally - no one would vote for something worse than we had, if they could actually see it was worse).

Currently, the only 'deal' on offer is the W.A and the political declaration. The EU have said they will not reopen the W.A -any deal comes through signing that. Even if we crash out, we will have to sign up to the W.A before the EU will even consider opening trade talks with us. It will be waiting for us once we have come to our senses/ starved into submission.
Therefore it is up to parliament to agree they will sign up to the W.A if the people tell them that is what they want them to do. They can agree amongst themselves what the joining political declaration should look like - the EU are willing to look at that again and change it, as it is non binding and will evolve alongside trade talks.

So the only question on a 2nd ref, that will make the referendum worth having - that will get them out of the morass and not crash the country into disaster (but still leave them floundering in the dark and eventually signing to the W.A - against the expressed will of the people) - is remain vs W.A. And if May had just given us that then she wouldn't have had to resign (she might have resigned on principle if remain had won - but that would have been entirely up to her). And we may end up getting it anyway as - barring revoke - it could well be the only way forward.

From my perspective (I am a 2016 Leave voter, for anyone new reading this) I think TeentimesTwo summarises the options for a second referendum very well.

My own view is still that the 2016 result must be delivered. It absolutely is the job of the government (any government) to propose a mechanism for this, and for Parliament to vote to enact it.

I think the options for resolving this are, however, rapidly narrowing down. Saw someone from a "think tank" on the news last night saying that almost the only thing the Conservatives and Labour now fear more than a second referendum is a new General Election. So second ref is more likely I'd say. Impossible to escape the impression that this is a "rerun" from my POV.

My own view is still that the 2016 result must be delivered

But no one knows what the 2016 result actually meant. Norway (Farage at one time suggested this) Canada, no deal?

That’s why we are stuck in this groundhoglike nightmare

Nonsense, the 2016 result meant what it said, we voted to Leave. All this "no one knew/what does leave mean" is all just muddying the waters by people who still, 3 years later do not accept that basic premise.

"Leave....and do what?" is a fair question. My answer to that is that the Government must agree an arrangement with the EU (they have) and Parliament must legislate to enact it (they haven't) Pretty clear where fault lies then, isn't it.

Nonsense, the 2016 result meant what it said, we voted to Leave

Ok Louise. What does Leave mean then?

• no deal?
• Norway?
• Canada +++?
• another option?

leave and do what? Is a fair question

Except you haven’t stated how we leave yet.

Sorry - re reading your post. Are you a fan of the WA?

Hence my point - there's no point in asking a question for a second time, where one of the answers is not defined ... because it does not clear up the mess at all. 'leave - it's simple'. Except it's not because nobody knows what it looks like.

It is not only remainers that don't like that W.A. If all leavers were behind it, there wouldn't be a problem. It is the hardcore brexiteers who have voted against it again and again (and again). If parliament is thwarting brexit - it is currently the leavers in parliament doing the most to thwart it - holding out for no deal or a better deal which is not forthcoming.

We have to have 2 clear, clearly defined options that everyone can understand (whether they take the time to is up to them) otherwise nothing is solved.

I have, we leave via a negotiated agreement with the EU, well that's my strong preference anyhow.

I agree in part with pretzels point about the opposition to WA. However the facts are, the ERG opponents number around 80, absolute max of 100. The other parties in the commons who take seats and vote currently number 328 including 246 a Labour party committed (apparently) to delivering on the referendum result. They number, way, way more than the hardline ERG can muster.

I have, we leave via a negotiated agreement with the EU, well that's my strong preference anyhow

Well what does this agreement look like? Is it the WA?

Yes, but one can hardly be shocked and disappointed when the opposition ... oppose. If the ERG had voted with the govt and the DUP had upheld their confidence and supply deal (leavers all) TM could have got brexit over the line.

The problem is, Louise you are very (sensibly) clear that leave means with a deal and accept the W.A ... too many people who voted the same way as you in 2016 see that as a complete betrayal of their vote (now - complete shift in overtone window). Hence why we need to either stop the whole thing because it cannot be done to the satisfaction of a majority, or with the consent of a minority OR ask again - but this time be a lot clearer on what is being asked.