To ask if people think we’d still have to sign the Withdrawl Agreement in the event of No Deal Brexit

[Bearbehind]

I try and keep up with all things Brexit but I’m baffled by this one.

There is a school of thought which says, even in the event of no deal, we’d still end up having to sign the withdrawl agreement in order to start to negiotiations as a third country on trade deals.

If it’s true then I struggle to understand why Theresa May never made this very clear because it would get the vote through wouldn’t it?

I can’t find anything conclusive on the subject - the WA had to be signed to get a deal but it’s not mentioned in a no deal scenario.

Interested to hear from Leave and Remain voters on this - what is your understanding?

If, even in the event of no deal, we need to sign the WA, why don’t we just get on wth it?

FFS 1tis Remainers get frustrated when Leavers talk nonsense but you are no better at the moment.

The current WA is off the table in the event of no deal. It does not need to be signed in its current form.

Much of its content will be factored into any future agreement but it makes a huge difference that we’d be effectvely back to the drawing board for the negiotiations with the EU having the contents as it’s red lines.

that’s very different to having to agree to this WA, which will not be reopened, in order to get a deal now.

The actual difference is probably negligible but we all know Brexit is about feelings not facts.

{The current WA is off the table in the event of no deal. It does not need to be signed in its current form.}

Please let Mr Barnier know this. His address is on the EP website.

{Much of its content will be factored into any future agreement but it makes a huge difference that we’d be effectvely back to the drawing board for the negiotiations with the EU having the contents as it’s red lines.}
The UK has has since December to agree the WA, and all the time since the referendum top put a coherent plan together. The UK has failed, miserably.

1tis you are talking absolute nonsense, please stop it.

The WA is an integral part of getting a deal to leave.

If we leave with no deal it is null and void and we start negiotiations again, albeit with the EU having the contents of the WA as it’s red lines.

Literally not 1 other person agrees with you and you have no evidence to prove your point so please stop spreading propaganda.

The situation is bad enough without that.

If we leave with no deal in October, OP, what do you think will happen while these negotiations over the agreement that’s not a withdrawal agreement take place? Given that existing trade and security relations would have ended? Do you have, for this intervening period before the notably different agreement is reached, any concerns of any kind? Are there any practical matters that come to mind at all?

ello, as someone else said, even if we just tippexed out the bits that are no longer relevant and give it a new name, it’s still not the WA which the EU have said is not open for negiotiation.

If you don’t see how big a difference that makes in this shitshow, you’ve learnt nothing over the last 3 years.

If it COULD have been changed, it would have been
That's bollocks. No one believes TM ever even tried even to change it. As a remainer she tried to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one. The EU never believed for a second she would walk away and actually leave without their permission.

Now we will have a new PM who will put no deal back on the table and the EU better dam well believe we will walk away at Halloween because we dam well will.

So its back to the EU, either we get something more reasonable before October or its a clean break. Just stupidly standing there demanding we agree the WA isn't going to cut it anymore because it should be as plain as the nose on your face that we are never signing it. Its more likely we will revoke before we sign it and I say that as a Brexiteer.

Hi Bear, you’re talking about the negotiations. They would take some time - whether a day or longer. What do you think would happen in the meantime?

No, walking, it’s not bollocks, as a means to leave with a deal, the WA was as far as it can go given the UK’s red lines.

Unless those change between now and Halloween, it’s no deal. the EU simply can’t offer anymore based on rules we helped to write.

Leaving with no deal changes things (although we would be in such a weak negiotiating position that we could well end up with a worse deal) but it wouldnt be the current WA.

{Now we will have a new PM who will put no deal back on the table and the EU better dam well believe we will walk away at Halloween because we dam well will.}

The EU are accepting the UK will 'no deal' and have prepared for it. It is not a 'threat' any longer. In March preparations were not complete and it would have been awful in the EU, but now, 'walk away'.
If the next PM wants their toothbrush or the goblin teasmaid, the instructions are ready.

you’re talking about the negotiations. They would take some time - whether a day or longer. What do you think would happen in the meantime?

I guarantee we wouldn’t sign the WA.

Why would you even think that was possible?

We wouldn’t jump of the no deal cliff only to sign the agreement which would have given us the ability to make a deal in an organised manner.

{We wouldn’t jump of the no deal cliff only to sign the agreement which would have given us the ability to make a deal in an organised manner.}

Where is the evidence of any joined up thinking by the UK government and indeed opposition, over the last 3 years?

Ill give you that 1Tis but it still wouldn’t be the current WA.

After no deal the basics have changed.

You simply can’t go round insisting the current WA will be signed whatever when it’s is not true.

{You simply can’t go round insisting the current WA will be signed whatever when it’s is not true.}
Well it is a damn sight more true than the £350 Million a week on the side of a bus, as spouted by a shyster who wants to be PM.
The fact that as a Foreign Sec he happily disgraced himself insulting others, and that over the years as a 'newspaper columnist' be has persisted in telling lies about the EU. I am sure this won't be forgotten in a hurry.
Going back to the cake analogy from this morning. The WA lists all the ingredients that need 'resolving' so it can't be swung any other way unless maybe printed in comic sans and change the order the various parts appear.

It is not a 'threat' any longer
Agreed its not a threat, just a statement of fact as to what will happen in October.

So if both sides agree we are all ready for no deal and that we can't agree the WA then why not start talking about what is actually going to happen from November onwards. We could get started on the negotiations for a future trade deal?

I am assuming the EU are civilised people so why not just be grown ups, accept we are partying ways and start talking about the future that we can agree on.

I don't think the UK is ready for a no deal scenario though ? It would be nice to be proved wrong and everything is all in order, ducks in a row etc.?

Well it is a damn sight more true than the £350 Million a week on the side of a bus, as spouted by a shyster who wants to be PM.

Something being ‘more true’ than blatant lie is a pretty low bar to set 1Tis

I’m disappointed that Remainers on these threads have sunk so low to be honest.

If UK never signs a WA then we never get trade deal with EU that is better than WTO terms.
If UK never signs a WA, we prove to rest-world that Uk is a lousy trading partner who doesn't keep its side of trade deals.

we prove to rest-world that Uk is a lousy trading partner who doesn't keep its side of trade deals.

I think we’ve already proved we can’t be trusted so that’s not too much to worry about.

And I’m not talking about ‘a’ WA I’m talking about ‘the’ WA’.

When teen DD had mega-tantrums, I learnt to be the solid cliff to her raging seas. She needed me to be solid & firm & unyielding. This was reassuring & really there was never anything to be gained by me sharing her giant flap.

That must be how things are for EU. There is nothing to be gained by them budging an inch b/c UK doesn't know what it wants, anyway. They are actually giving us a target to try to settle around & get used to.

Again, you’re talking about the WA. I’m asking you about what the world will look like on the day after we’ve left without signing the WA. Can you answer that?

ello I have no fucking idea.

On paper everything stops, in reality I suspect it won’t.

It still doesn’t mean we’ll sign the WA on day 1 if we won’t now.

That’s the UK by the way - the world will carry on just fine.

I’m not talking about the WA. I’m asking you to explain what life will be like when we don’t sign the WA, as you propose. If you’re going to propose a course of action you need to be able to explain what we can expect by following it. So please explain. What will life be like when we don’t sign the WA?

ello I’m a Remainer - I don’t think we should even be leaving but I’m not so deluded I can’t see that this divide can’t be healed if we carry on as we are.

I genuinely don’t believe we’ll ever get to a no deal situation as I don’t believe any PM will be prepared to go down in history as the person who fucked up the country so I haven’t given much thought to day 1 after no deal.

The point I am making is that Remainers scaremonging by insisting the WA needs to be signed, come hell or high water, only makes matters worse because it’s an element of project fear which is blatantly untrue.

It undermines the bits that are actually true.

But saying that Remainers are scaremongering by insisting the WA will have to be signed doesn’t explain what happens when the WA is not signed. So please explain that to us. If we don’t need to sign it, then what does it look like if we don’t sign it?