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Brexit

Westminstenders: A fully functioning government?

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2019 23:50

It's been a month since parliament voting on anything.

The staggering reality of May's premiership is that government has ceased to function. We are stuck not just on Brexit but every other issue, such is the weakness of May's authority.

It begs the question of how long this is tolerable by all sides of the Conservative Civil War?

May being unable to bring anything forward means no deal is probably as inevitable as if a hardliner was PM.

There was talk of May / Corbyn reaching a fudge to get a deal via the backdoor WAB (Withdrawal Agreement Implimentation Bill) as it was politically impossible for them to be seen doing a deal any other way. However news today is that despite pressure from the 1922 Committee to bring it forward, May has slapped just a one line whip on it, meaning it will go precisely no where.

The polling for the European elections is perhaps more favourable to Labour than they might have feared after last weeks local election disaster so the mutual interest for Corbyn to move forward in anyway has already gone. Seeing the Tories be humiliated at the ballot box is too much of a temptation.

The phrase about Shit Creek only gets more apt.

All that is happening is every member of the Tory Party is lining up to take part in a leadership contest. It's harder to think of a Tory who isn't considering standing. It's not just the likes of Johnson, Gove, Rudd and Hunt. It's also the likes of Johnny Mercer and Graham Brady queuing not so patiently.

And its getting harder to argue that May is better as PM than the possibility of a right right candidate, because of the paralysis. Though as Rudd rightly points out, such a PM who wanted to actively have no deal as a policy, would struggle to win a majority in the HoC for that all important Queens Speech vote - every bit as much as May. Unless they were to somehow decide they could abuse the power of the executive and ignore parliament - a feat May has repeatedly attempted but ultimately failed at.

All everything feels, is a massive sense of merely delaying the inevitable.

Remain? Hard to see how under any Tory. A Deal? Hard to see what it might be and how there will be a Parliamentary majority. A PV? Well that still has to get through parliament and needs to be arranged smartish. And might not resolve the Irish border issue if the vote goes 'the wrong way' A General Election? That still seems to be a distinct possibility. But with the seeming resurrection of the LDs that's one the Tories will be desperate to avoid. Not that Corbyn is likely to succeed either. And of course there is now the Spectre of the Turquoise Arrows lurking. The crushing of the purple pound notes feels a hollow and distinct success.

It feels like we are waiting for the political sky to fall in in some sort of never ending Brexit Purgotory.

The cataclysmic event will occur at some point. It has to. But for now, it feels that there is nothing but waiting and waiting to be done.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 14/05/2019 10:35

I'm waiting for a cite, but it's worthy of contemplation anyway.

Through another forum (yes ! there are others Grin) I caught a comment from someone saying there's a Harvard professor who wrote a paper suggesting that human activity is being driven by organisms that need more CO2 in the atmosphere. Much like that horrific fungus that takes over ants brains forcing them to climb trees to spread spores (mentioned on QI). So in a way, the human species is infected with a collective madness. Intended to create a bug nirvana on Earth.

All of which said, I haven't seen a cite, and my 1999 New Years Resolution was you research your bollocks. (Amazing how many arguments it stops ...)

DGRossetti · 14/05/2019 10:36

So Nigel, what did you do in the 70s ?

Westminstenders: A fully functioning government?
CrunchyCarrot · 14/05/2019 10:44

I'm not at all sure that actually IS Nigel in that picture.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 10:48

Senior* Tory MP calls for GE pact with Farage*

Opportunism - and deperation - knocks
A marriage made in hell 🤮

Hopefully, the ginormous egos of Farage, Boris & co will scupper this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/may/14/brexit-latest-news-developments-tories-should-form-electoral-pact-with-brexit-party-at-next-general-election-says-senior-mp-live-news?page=with:block-5cda6f3b8f08d2b474ebb441#block-5cda6f3b8f08d2b474ebb441

Crispin Blunt, a former chair of the foreign affairs committee, told Newsnight last night:
"In my judgment, we are going to have to come to an accommodation with the Brexit party.

The Conservativess^, as a Brexit party again, being very clear about their objectives, are almost certainly going to have to go into some kind of electoral arrangement with the Brexit party,
otherwise Brexit doesn’t happen."

Blunt said his preference would be for a pact involving the Tories standing in the seats they hold, and the Brexit party standing in all the other seats.
He claimed that, if they united, the two parties could win handsomely.

"Listen to what Nigel Farage said; he would “do a deal with the devil” to get Brexit over the line.
The Conservative party is very far from being the devil in this.

Eighty per cent of the membership of the Conservative party are very keen to make sure that Brexit happens, will be in a position to enthusiastically support leaving the European Union with no deal.

If we are then able to agree a position to put to the country, I think we would hit the ball out of the park."

DGRossetti · 14/05/2019 10:57

I wonder how many more old school Tories would are horrified at the idea of any link up with anybody. Let alone Farage. Just when you thought there might be a way to stem the losses, someone finds a way to make the would bigger.

LoonvanBoon · 14/05/2019 10:58

I saw that interview with Crispin Blunt on Newsnight, BCF. I've been anxious about this kind of electoral pact since the polls started coming out suggesting the Brexit Party would win seats in a GE. Really chilling. We know the Tories will do anything to ensure their own survival, & given the arrangement with the DUP I can't see a new more brexity Tory leader like Johnson or Raab having any compunction about getting into bed with Farage.

Lewis Goodall's threads on Farage's rallies are also deeply depressing. Not because of the numbers - the ones in west Yorkshire yesterday were in smallish venues & about 500 people a time - but because of the language being used & the fact that anyone is lapping up this shit.

I find it particularly disturbing that Farage was purposely whipping up anger against Yvette Cooper at his rally near Pontefract (he was next to her constituency), saying that noone had done as much to block Brexit as Yvette Cooper & 'joking' that he & his thugs had parked their tanks on her lawn. All this in an area close to where Jo Cox was murdered. He's a disgrace.

Article about the Yorkshire rallies here:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/13/nigel-farage-brexit-party-event-terrifying-glimpse-future

LoonvanBoon · 14/05/2019 11:09

Is that definitely Farage, DGR? He'd only have been 15 in 1979 (unbelievably - I can't believe he's only 54 now). Is he really short (or not finished growing??) or is Martin Webster quite tall?

DGRossetti · 14/05/2019 11:12

Is that definitely Farage, DGR?

I don't know. How come Remainers get held to a higher standard of proof than leavers ? Perhaps it should have been painted on the side of a bus ?

Anyway, careful reading of my post shows that I didn't state it was NF. Just posted with a question. Good luck with that, Carter-Fuck.

Now if I were to say that Nigel Farage is a cunt, on the other hand ...

1tisILeClerc · 14/05/2019 11:24

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/lord-mayors-banquet-2019-foreign-secretarys-speech?utm_source=5663c9fa-7f99-4e11-9f7f-fece5b036d79&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

I think he needs a better scriptwriter, and some proper material.

Stage 1, Decide if the UK is leaving the EU or remaining in.
Stage 2, Think of a plan.
Stage 3, Stop being delusional, the world is leaving the UK behind.

Scores points for remembering his wife is Chinese and to propose a toast to the Mayor and Mayoress.

Peregrina · 14/05/2019 11:36

A study revealed how the wealthy engage in ‘stealth politics’:
quietly advancing unpopular, inequality-exacerbating, highly conservative policies

As we have seen on these threads, where posters express resentment at the pensions of nurses and teachers who have passed exams and trained for their jobs, but rejoice that a spiv like Farage is doing well in the polls, instead of calling him out for his behaviour.

DGRossetti · 14/05/2019 11:44

A study revealed how the wealthy engage in ‘stealth politics’: quietly advancing unpopular, inequality-exacerbating, highly conservative policies

Doesn't seem very "stealthy" from where I'm looking. Quite the reverse, it's a bragging point.

tobee · 14/05/2019 11:46

*Now, if I were to say Nigel Farage is a cunt, on the other hand...
*
That would be Fair Comment surely?

Icantreachthepretzels · 14/05/2019 12:33

Crispin Blunt, a former chair of the foreign affairs committee, told Newsnight last night:
In my judgment, we are going to have to come to an accommodation with the Brexit party

Do they never learn? Running scared from Farage is what got them where they are now - destroying themselves in public and plummeting down the polls, trapped in the mire of a referendum they didn't need to hold and certainly didn't need to implement.

The other reason for their terrible state is that - lacking the seats to do the job - they got into bed with the DUP; a small, extremist party which now holds them over a barrel.

But - yeah, Crispin, striking a deal with Farage will cure what ails you. In no way will he eat you alive, once you give him a foothold on power. In no way will it be the tory/ DUP relationship on steroids and ten times as nasty. FFS

DGRossetti · 14/05/2019 12:38

but ... and we've seen it again and again:
once you have paid the Dane-geld;
you never can get rid of the Dane ...

CrunchyCarrot · 14/05/2019 13:00

Now if I were to say that Nigel Farage is a cunt, on the other hand ...

That's just disrespectful to vaginas! Wink After all think how tough they are, is Farage like that? Nope! He'll be off at the first sign of having to do something useful!

tobee · 14/05/2019 13:07

This doesn't look good about British Steel.

tobee · 14/05/2019 13:09

British Steel

Westminstenders: A fully functioning government?
BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 13:16

(Aug 2016, Independent) Farage’s fascist past? Nigel boasted about his NF initials and sang ‘gas them all'

In case anyone feels sorry / indignant about these allegations that Farage had a publicly fascist past .....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html

Nigel Farage was proud at the height of Britain’s far right movement that his initials NF also stood for National Front,
according to a close school friend who after years of silence says he now wants the public to understand more about the man.

He also claims the teenage Mr Farage sang “gas ‘em all, gas ‘em all”, a neo-Nazi song about Jewish people.

The former friend attended fee-paying Dulwich College in south London with the ex-Ukip leader in the late Seventies and early Eighties
.....
he remembered the teenage Nigel who he says would provoke and “enchant” teachers and pupils alike ( ? Confused )
and supported the British 1930s fascist Oswald Mosley.

His former friend initially planned to identify himself, but after the killing of MP Jo Cox in June he claims he is fearful of potential repercussions from fanatics.
......
It is not the first time Mr Farage has faced accusations of holding fascist views at school.

In 2013, a letter emerged from a former Dulwich College teacher, Chloe Deakinin^, to then headteacher Mr Emms* .....
the letter written in June 1981 – two months after the Brixton riots a couple of miles away –
she pleaded unsuccessfully with Mr Emms to reverse his decision to make Nigel a prefect.

She said colleagues had told her he held “publicly professed racist and fascist views”
and that he had once marched through a Sussex village singing Hitler Youth songs.

Peregrina · 14/05/2019 13:23

British Steel - where is Clavinova to tell us that British Steel are lame ducks anyway?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 13:28

confirmed that Honda will close its Swindon plant in 2021 - up to 3,500 employees to be made redundant

Just Project Fear that Brexit will harm our motor industry
Nothing to see, move on ....

www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2019-05-13/honda-confirms-swindon-plant-closure-in-2021/

Des Quinn says Unite is still waiting for "detailed reasons" from Honda for the closure Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 13:29

Ah lame ducks ..... the good old 1980s and the last major Tory de-industrialisation, under Thatcher.
We were due for another, to keep the workers cowed.

1tisILeClerc · 14/05/2019 13:31

I thought the new Northern Powerhouse was poised to take the world by storm, as it did in the 18th Century, according to government ministers.
Damn this globalisation, now the UK has run out of raw materials those 'Johnny foreigners' are stealing the show.

Peregrina · 14/05/2019 13:33

The Honda news is distressing, but presumably what Leavers want.

I can well believe that it's partly driven by overcapacity in the vehicle production market, but why on earth vote to be the ones who chose to lose your production instead of fighting to be the last to retain it.

DorisDaysDadsDogsDead · 14/05/2019 13:41

Interesting thread on one way to convert Quitlings.

Felonius Dunc

My thread on how to beat Leavers (sorry!)
1/ I was a Leave voter. I have become a #Remainernow, but there is one key piece of the Brexiteer psyche I don’t feel is being engaged with by any of the Remain parties. You see, every Brexiteer is a hero.

2/ It’s a wonderful feeling – a sincere belief that you are doing the right thing, and all obstacles and sacrifices are actually proof that you are on the right track. The reaction to “Project Fear” is a case in point; clearly Remainers were cowards.

3/ In fact, it doesn’t matter if every prediction comes true to them – it just highlights the length they are willing to go to succeed in their quest; how heroic they are. The more sacrifice, the more it must be worth it in the end. It gives a sense of empowerment that emboldens.

4/ It defies reason; it can’t be appealed to by conventional means. Everything a Remainer shows as proof of Brexit’s failings is a by-the-by victim in a glorious battle. It will urge them on, not send them into retreat, because then they will be the ones falling to cowardice.

5/ Which is where the solution lies. The narrative needs to be reversed. It needs to be said, clearly and publicly, that Brexit is a coward’s way out.

6/ Those on the left – running from their commitments; those in the middle – running from hard work; those on the right – running from a fight. Running from Europe.

7/ It won’t work for many, but it doesn’t need to. It sows the doubt in the subconscious. Those Brexiteers in positions of power will have an answer, but there is no glib reply the person on the street can give.

8/ And many a brave soul looks like a coward when accused of cowardice (particularly on television with no pre-prepared answers).

9/ Even so, the effect may be small, but there are many grandparents and parents thinking they should vote Brexit for their children’s sake. If there’s a chance that this is a coward’s option, a shirking of hard work, they may think twice on the 23rd May.

10/ Another benefit of this effect is that it wouldn’t show up in polls – Farage could be left humiliated if he suddenly gets a lower voter share than predictions suggest. That would be the ultimate win from these elections.

11/ I’ve reflected on this on my own journey over the last few years, and I hope it makes sense. I feel the time is right for “Brave” to be our direction. Let them have the label of “cowards”.
#RemainerNow #RevokeA50 #BollockstoBrexit

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 13:43

There has been over capacity in the European & US motor industries for several years
Then there are all the environmental & safety regs which are increasinly difficult & eypensive for auto manufacturers to tackle
Many plants are running at below capacity

The weakest plants are being closest in a process that started years ago, after a complex weighing up of all the commercial pros & cons for each.

Bad time to stick a massive CON label (CON delivering Cons) on the British motor industry
Brexit makes all sectors of UK manufacturing a special target when CEOs are looking to cut capacity

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