UK expats misled about right to vote

[OnGoldenPond]

I'm here visiting my Mum who has lived in Spain for the past 12 years. We got onto the topic of Brexit (obviously a big concern for her) and she complained about how unfair it was that she wasn't allowed to vote in the referendum as she is a Spanish resident and how all her local friends feel the same and would have voted Remain if had been given the chance. They also don't have the right to vote in Spanish national elections as they are not Spanish citizens.

This set me thinking as something didn't sit right to me. So I looked up voting rights of UK expats living in a n EU country on you.gov. And guess what? They can register as a British overseas voter for 15 years after leaving the UK which gives the right to vote in all UK general elections, referenda and EU parliament elections! So she and all her friends could have voted in the referendum. In her community alone that would probably about 200 voters who would have been overwhelmingly Remain voters.

DM was shocked. Apparently everyone in her community had been told by some "bloke who knows everything" that as soon as they became Spanish residents they lost all UK voting rights. So no one voted.

As I see it the implications are potentially enormous. Was this "bloke" a deliberate plant by the Leave campaign to prevent the predominantly Remain expat community voting? Were a series of "blokes" planted in UK expat communities throughout the EU?

TBH I don't know the number of UK citizens living in the EU, but I have a feeling that it may be a number which could have had a significant effect on the result. Has this issue ever been looked into?

If anyone knows any UK expats in the EU, please ask them to spread the word on this and encourage their fellow expats to register to vote before the 7th so they can have their say in the European elections and in a second referendum if it happens. It's easy to do online at you. Gov.uk/registertovote. All you need is the date you permanently left the UK, the address at which you were last registered to vote in the UK, your passport details and your UK NI number.

sorry that's really long, but difficult to summarise.

So you are annoyed because your mother and her friends were naive enough to believe some random man? It’s common knowledge that most countries allow you to vote by post/at your local consulate. I still have to tell my government that I can’t be arsed voting at each election to avoid being fined despite having lived in Britain for ages.

Boggles, just because you're know about it doesn't mean it is common knowledge, and everyone myDM knows thought the same as her.

Sorry, I'm not as blasé as you about informing people about their democratic rights. There is a massive tv campaign at the moment encouraging people to register to vote, it wouldn't take much to include a message about expats voting rights.

I actually think voting should be made compulsory in the UK as it is in some other countries so can understand your exasperation to a certain extent, but it does highlight the worrying effects of misinformation and rumour. Two things the Leave campaign have been shown to have been experts in exploiting.

A simple google would have told them the facts.

A simple google tells everyone how to register to vote but the government is still currently running an expensive TV advertising campaign to publicise how to do it

Google is not always simple for older people, there are plenty that don’t even have internet access

Unless the "bloke who knows everything" was employed by the UK government to give your mother that information, it does seem a bit slack not to have researched it herself. As milli said, 15 seconds on Google would have set her straight.

Different demographic, but it was very well circulated in expat groups that I'm in about voting (and again for Thursdays local elections).

It's ANY British Citizen who has lived in the UK in the past 15 years, who is entitled to a vote in British Elections.

Yes that's what I want to know, Sunshine, was there a lot is misinformation around in the expat community at the time of the referendum. My anecdotal evidence points to there being some, your experience is different. Would be interested to know if there was a proper official campaign to publicise expat voter rights at the time.

Don't know if there are any official figures available about UK expats eligible to vote?

Quick google

Number eligible to vote due to 15 year rule

I think it's the individual's responsibility to ensure they are aware of the implications of living overseas. Why would you believe some random bloke knows everything? I can't vote as I have been out for over 15 years, but am aware of the rule as are other British expats I know.

Not bothering to fact check for yourself is not the same as being misled.

Sounds less like the expats were misled than none of them could be bothered to find out for themselves whether they were eligible to vote. When you disenfranchise yourself through idleness it's not anyone else's fault!

Are they just realising the possible implications of Brexit and are now worrying and looking to blame someone ?

Yes milli that's the google search I did.

A similar google search can be done by anyone who wants to register to vote. Didn't stop the government paying for all those ads on the telly.

Your ability and mine to google are not in question. I am talking about pensioners who did not grow up with this technology and are not as comfortable with it. Retaining the right to vote shouldn't be dependent on IT skills.

1.4 million is a fair chunk of voters. Certainly worth some attention.

Did they look into the right to vote before they left ?

But, its my responsibility to check these things out. You hear stuff about elections, voting from abroad, and you double check the facts, because all sorts of things get twisted on internet forums, and by the bloke in the pub.

milli I wonder what proportion of the 1.4 eligible to vote actually did?

I did not grow up with this technology either - born in the 1960s - but it's really not that tricky and surely many expats in Spain use email and the internet to keep in touch with family and friends in the UK.
Retaining the right to vote is not dependent on IT skills - it's dependent on checking what you are/are not entitled to when you leave the UK to live overseas - basic stuff really. Surely all these expats in researched regulations/laws when they moved to Spain?

Milli, I don't think it is looking for someone to blame in DMs case. She was a regular voter in the UK and just genuinely believed this guy. She really wanted to vote but genuinely thought she had lost the right. He was the head of a local residents organisation and claimed to have researched the issue. So held some kind of authority in the eyes of the community. Which made me suspect some underhanded motives.

Well I shall certainly do what I can to publicise this issue to expats as I share the government view that you can't leave it all to google.

I believe there around 1 million UK in EU, and they are entitled to vote for up to 15 years after leaving the UK. Of course not all will be of voting age.
The 15 years aspect had been changed a while back but I forget details as it was an 'election pledge' that quietly got lost.
Although it is fairly obvious to most that those who are 'expats/immigrants' ought to have voted to remain it cannot be assumes that they would all work out that FoM and other issues would involve them directly it can't be taken

There are always people who act like they are in the know but don't really know the facts. For example those people who peddle the myth that if you put the same school for each slot on the application then they have to allocate that school to you. I don't think that this is a Remain plant- your mum and her friends are gullible.

There were 1.4 million expats who could have voted. I can't find how many of them voted and how many were misinformed like your mum's community but I doubt that it was statistically significant enough to make a difference. If they had lifted the 15 year rule like promised then 5.5 million would have been able to vote.

Pikachu - I didn't know lifting the 15 year rule had been promised and reneged on, that is interesting.

Every time there are local elections British expats would be sent voting papers as they have the right to vote in them.

Every time there are EU elections British expats will have been sent a form to sign declaring if they are voting in the country of residence or in Britain as they have the right to vote in either but not both.

I don't believe that anyone living in another EU state for 12 years has never had any paperwork to indicate that they still have some voting rights in the UK. More fool them if they haven't then looked into it further.

I don't know a single British expat who didn't vote in the referendum if they were entitled to. I know quite a few who didn't vote because they couldn't, which is a whole other issue.