UK expats misled about right to vote

[OnGoldenPond]

I'm here visiting my Mum who has lived in Spain for the past 12 years. We got onto the topic of Brexit (obviously a big concern for her) and she complained about how unfair it was that she wasn't allowed to vote in the referendum as she is a Spanish resident and how all her local friends feel the same and would have voted Remain if had been given the chance. They also don't have the right to vote in Spanish national elections as they are not Spanish citizens.

This set me thinking as something didn't sit right to me. So I looked up voting rights of UK expats living in a n EU country on you.gov. And guess what? They can register as a British overseas voter for 15 years after leaving the UK which gives the right to vote in all UK general elections, referenda and EU parliament elections! So she and all her friends could have voted in the referendum. In her community alone that would probably about 200 voters who would have been overwhelmingly Remain voters.

DM was shocked. Apparently everyone in her community had been told by some "bloke who knows everything" that as soon as they became Spanish residents they lost all UK voting rights. So no one voted.

As I see it the implications are potentially enormous. Was this "bloke" a deliberate plant by the Leave campaign to prevent the predominantly Remain expat community voting? Were a series of "blokes" planted in UK expat communities throughout the EU?

TBH I don't know the number of UK citizens living in the EU, but I have a feeling that it may be a number which could have had a significant effect on the result. Has this issue ever been looked into?

If anyone knows any UK expats in the EU, please ask them to spread the word on this and encourage their fellow expats to register to vote before the 7th so they can have their say in the European elections and in a second referendum if it happens. It's easy to do online at you. Gov.uk/registertovote. All you need is the date you permanently left the UK, the address at which you were last registered to vote in the UK, your passport details and your UK NI number.

sorry that's really long, but difficult to summarise.

If she's been in Spain 12 years there's been 3 general elections in that time, did she vote in any of those as you said she was a regular voter in the uk ?

I was thinking more along the lines of a Leave plant as they would be the ones to benefit, but maybe that is a little paranoid.

You are right, DM and friends were a bit naive to trust his word but there was a lot of misinformation in the referendum campaign and an awareness campaign wouldn't go amiss.

I hope your DM registered and voted in recent local elections in spain! So many British immigrants in spain are incredibly detached from the society they've chosen to call home.
My DM was fully aware of her UK and spanish voting rights but it's incredible the number of people aren't even aware of who the spanish PM is or follow spanish news.
Yet we chastise and criticase immigrants in uk who do not integrate and assimilate completely here.
Drives me mad that pensioners who retire to Spain call themselves 'ex -pats' as if they are a protected privileged group!

Actually what enrages me more is the number of brits abroad who did exercise their right to vote in the referendum and voted to leave. DM knows many but fortunately not people she would call friends.

InterestIng that you are indignant on her behalf NOW but didn’t bother researching (googling) at the time...

There were several voters in my polling station that had missed the deadline for a postal vote so flew into the UK for the referendum, so I suggest that lack of knowledge was not a widespread issue.

I've lived overseas and voted, the foreign and commonwealth office website was clear as was my council electoral role webpage. 15 years from leaving the U.K. to be a permanent resident.

yabu
they have not been misled.
the information about voting rights is available to anyone - people just need to inform themselves.
listening to the bloke in the pub who seems to know everything can be verified by looking up stuff on the official websites or mumsnet

Drivin - yes DM votes in all local elections in Spain.

Can't understand an EU expat voting Leave! Clearly no grasp on reality at all! (Unless they were secretly fed up of living abroad and planned to return to the UK).

Green - as voting information is freely available online why the need for the current TV ad campaign on registering to vote? Is the government just wasting money?

You didn't answer my question - did she vote in previous uk elections whilst in Spain ?

In me experience those voted to leave live on urbanisations, still consider themselves fiscal residents in UK, would expect (and some do) come back to UK to use NHS, make no attempt at integration and enjoy a good old fashioned fry up on the Paseo.
Just my observations

it is freely available, but some people are stupid don't actively look for it, so the tv adds are a good reminder.

Milli - I answered your question in my post 31 mins ago.

As you appear to have missed it, I will reiterate.

She has voted in every election in the UK, both local, national and European, since being old enough to vote until she left the UK to live in Spain.

She has since voted in all local elections in Spain, which she knew she was eligible for as the local town hall publicises the fact to all new residents.

So she had 9 years in Spain before Brexit to find out her voting rights ?

Green - so it's ok for UK resident voters to be a bit naive/lazy and need to have their rights displayed as they watch Corrie, but expats deserve to lose their democratic rights for being similar?

OK ....

Yep milli, but the misinformation came early.

Yes it's exasperating and she has been naive but no more than the UK residents who need the process pointing out on telly.

everyone has the right/obligation to keep themselves informed.

*Every time there are local elections British expats would be sent voting papers as they have the right to vote in them.

Every time there are EU elections British expats will have been sent a form to sign declaring if they are voting in the country of residence or in Britain as they have the right to vote in either but not both.*

I don't call myself an "expat", ever. But I left the UK in 1995, when I was 21, and have lived in the EU ever since, first in an ultra-peripheral region (I believe it was given that specific status after I arrived, in the Treaty of Amsterdam) and, since 2005, in an EU country itself.
I never received voting papers - I had to find out about voting in elections, in a pre-Internet age.
In the 1997 GE, I voted by post and continued to do so until I realised I'd been struck off the rolls. (I was not informed that I had been.)
The UK has always been, IME, pretty poor at informing me of my rights, but I always managed to work out what to do.

The ramifications of Brexit were immediately clear to any UK citizen living in the EU in 2016, particularly in terms of the risk to their rights.

Your mother was really quite naive to believe whomever she did. While I deplore the uselessness of the UK gvmt at informing its citizens of their rights, I think the onus is on the individual to ensure they are properly informed.

Yeah, sorry OP but I'm an expat Brit (although I prefer immigrant) living on the continent and I and all my Brit mates know they can vote for 15 years after leaving. What I didn't know until the upcoming European elections is that I can vote in the UK as a UK citizen or I can vote in my resident country as a registered resident. But not both, apparently (although how they'd check, I have no idea!)

I’ve been living in an EU country for 16 years, and have voted in general elections and the referendum in that time. Unfortunately we’re now just over the 15 year limit

It’s not rocket science

I'm getting the general message that it is generally thought that if you can't research your voting rights online you deserve to lose them and any kind of awareness campaign for less tech savvy or generally aware citizens is an unjustified waste of money.

Have I got that right?

Then I guess you will all be outraged at the outrageous waste of public money on the current TV campaign to encourage voter registration ahead of the European Elections?

Oops, two outrages, apologies for poor composition.

My mum is a complete computer numpty so certainly doesn't get her info online.
I think your mum's mistake was unfortunately trusting her source as the Oracle of facts. There's always one in a group!

Drive - yep completely agree she was appalling naive to trust that information and I did face palm when she told me.

However, I don't think being naive and a bit silly should be a reason to deny someone the right to vote. If it was voter registration levels in the UK would be a whole lot lower.

She wasn't denied the right to vote though, was she?