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Brexit

Westminstenders: The gall of the french

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 22:04

We are full steam ahead with European Parliamentary Elections! Something that seemed unthinkable a few weeks ago.

May still remains adament that they will not happen, but the die has been cast.

May is off to beg Macron and Merkel to back an extension but the French are already stating they want assurances we won't screw thing up for everyone else.

May still is pushing for a deal with Corbyn and a Not a compromise.

Still there is no sign of a breakthrough either for an extension nor over a cross party deal. It drags on, but at least no one has mentioned the WA for ten minutes.

We might yet be in Europe for another Eurovision. Psychologically this feels important.

The ERG are not happy.

OP posts:
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Sostenueto · 09/04/2019 08:47

There was an audible groan in HoC when speaker asked Cash to propose his amendment.Grin

QueenOfThorns · 09/04/2019 08:47

Why don’t they all see that we NEED to stay in the EU because we’re incapable of doing anything right for ourselves. Unbelievable about the settled status applications, it looks as though DH was one of the lucky ones. People don’t need that crap on top of everything else Sad

LonelyTiredandLow · 09/04/2019 08:48

Do we think any more red lines will be crossed this week?

Dd calls Corbyn Jeremy Cor-Gin. I thought that would be pleasing Grin.

howabout · 09/04/2019 08:49

Happy National Unicorn Day.

Bear in mind when commenting herladry experts are want to remark:

“Its significance is being damaged by politicians [around the world, particularly when it comes to Brexit] who use it as an image of uncertainty and fanciful thinking,” said Devlin, who is also a Knight of Malta and a member of The Heraldry Society of Scotland. “Some Scottish nationalists also think the unicorn’s chains symbolise our subjugation from England. But that’s nonsense. The chains predate the Acts of Union in 1707 [that led to the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain] and show the savage nature of the beast – it is not My Little Pony with a horn. So it would be good to administer a history lesson to these unpatriotic politicians.”

NoWordForFluffy · 09/04/2019 08:52

Well, if I had a choice between listening to Bill Cash and going to a Eurovision party I'd choose the party.

However, as I'm unlikely to be faced with such a binary choice, I choose neither! 😂

Bill Cash needs to retire. He's the absolute worst type of politician out there.

prettybird · 09/04/2019 08:54

Even if some UKIP MEPs get elected but not one from Scotland Wink, the danger from them being obstructive is minimal compared to the risk of the UK using its veto inappropriately in the European Council to obstruct for the sake of it Sad

Who knows who the next PM will be? Shock And as they're a law unto their own (Cooper-Letwin Bill notwithstanding Hmm), if I were the EU, I wouldn't trust any reassurances from May, who is a "dead (wo)man PM walking" Hmm

golondrina · 09/04/2019 08:55

I've been reading this www.britonsvotingabroad.co.uk/overseas-electors-bill/?fbclid=IwAR2uFZ8MbiGHeRLWXBJOgEGWcOfqXdHtyqnwugYx1A6KOiMwkxXj4-P6I08 about the Overseas Electors Bill. It's clear Labour opposes it, can anyone explain why? I don't understand.

Ohmygoodness101 · 09/04/2019 08:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum · 09/04/2019 08:57

There was no point in that Cooper bill.

I think there was a point. The government is the least trustworthy of any government in 100s of years.

My evidence for this is we have a government that:

  1. Tried to trigger Art 50 with no parliamentary process.
2. Repeatedly denied the existence of impact assessments.
  1. Refused to disclose impact assessments to the parliamentary select committee set up to monitor Brexit.
  2. Has cabinet ministers that say we didn't mean international agreements and will renege on them as our word is not our bond .
5 . Has cabinet ministers who mislead fellow parliamentarians on the select committee. 6.Has been held in contempt of Parliament for the first time in centuries.
  1. Rewards MPs who have previously been disgraced and deceitful ( Fox and Johnson ) with the highest Office's in the country.
  2. Panders to an internal party within a party led by self interested profiteers who openly state that we will block our neighbours budgets if we don't get what we want.
  3. Fought tooth and nail to deny Parliament a Democratic vote on the final deal.

For these reasons and more the Cooper Letwin Bill was needed.

Mistigri · 09/04/2019 09:01

Some more settled status stories.

Sorry to harp on but I hear all the time that citizens' rights are secure. They are not.

"My wife is in the same position we have lived here for 37 years she has national insurance records for 35 of them yet also denied settled status and now has to provide additional evidence^"

"^Will you answer my tweet? i have been in the U.K. for 9.5 years, over 5 of them I have worked with no gaps in employment. I have never left the country for more than couple of weeks at a time. Applied for Settled Status, apparently not enough info to grant it! @ukhomeoffice^"

"^#SettledStatus update: just tried to help my mum with her application and even though she’s been working in the uk for nearly 20 years (she’s been in the same place for 6 years!), it says they have no record of her being the UK! #brexit^"

"^My partner & I started our #settledstatus process. I wasn’t able to upload a photo and need to wait at least 5 days for Home Office to get back. My partner has to send his passport to the Home Office and wait a month for it to be returned. Not at all “simple and straightforward”!"

"first I only manage to qualify for pre settled status and have to provide 3ys evidence then my son is told he needs 6 m evidence to qualify for pre settled status. We’ve both been here 13y and he’s had a govt loan for his education. This is crazy"

The above are just since yesterday!

lonelyplanetmum · 09/04/2019 09:01

Yes after the unhelpful comments of jrm wanting to wreak havoc, I can see why thé EU would not want the European Parliament vulnerable to capricious vetoes by the UK.

What also gets me is they done learn. David David openly said it's not agreed until everything's agreed. This led the EU ( sensibly) to require a more nailed down agreement.

So his mate JRM doesn't learn.

He openly threatens to be disruptive so this led the EU ( sensibly) once again to require a more nailed down agreement.

RedToothBrush · 09/04/2019 09:01

You see I'm of the opinion that the Cooper Bill was pointless. However if it was so pointless why did it get filibustered so much? So I think there is a psychological purpose to it which perhaps is more useful than its legislative one.

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 09/04/2019 09:03

Leadson now saying TM asking EU to reopen WA?Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2019 09:04

It's not just the EP that the UK could disrupt
Even more important are the EU Council meetings, at which the heads of govt make the major EU policy decisions:

the next 7-year budget, further integration, increasing workers rights e.g. abolishing ZHC, tougher environmental regs, integrated defence plans .....

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2019 09:07

imo, the Cooper bill was useful additional political pressure to avoid No Deal and go softer

The legal force it would have in practice is dubious

woman19 · 09/04/2019 09:09

When I see how Professor Daniel Muijs of Ofsted is being treated, I compare it to what Chris Woodhead, (Head of Ofsted 1994-2000) was allowed to get away with. (Sexual Offences Act 2003).

www.independent.co.uk/news/woodhead-lied-about-sex-with-pupil-reveals-wife-1078839.html

Very poor judgement by Tony Blair, shown in that case.

If Mr Woodhead had had a forrin name and or appearance would things have been different?

Anti fascists in Italy, America and across the EU doing a support action today, to get pro remain MEPs elected in Britain. Smile

Grass roots pro EU, pro liberal democracy groups across the west developing extremely healthily and in great number, over the last 3 years.

Westminstenders: The gall of the french
Peregrina · 09/04/2019 09:11

Could Cooper-Letwin be politically binding rather than legally binding, in the same way that the advisory referendum was politically but not legally binding.

lonelyplanetmum · 09/04/2019 09:11

Weren't Cooper Letwin just trying to tie the government down for a few weeks to ensure there was Parliamentary input in postponing (and slim chance of averting ) a no deal.

Although May had acquiesced to the delay - she's vulnerable to flipp flopping in the space of 24 hours depending on whatever takes place behind closed doors with the ERG?

MadAboutWands · 09/04/2019 09:12

PMK

I applied for the Settled Status when it was still a trial. It went through with no issue at all, despite the fact I am self employed (the one thing that seems to have created issues to a lot of people).
I have to say I was scared doing it. My starting point was that I wouod have to give further evidence and that it wouldn’t work. Despite having lived here for 20 years. I says a lot about my total lack of trust towards the government :(
Still not confortable or feeling safe either. I actually don’t trust them to keep the records right (as per the number of people who have problems proving they’ve lived more than 5 year in the uk after 20 years living here) :(:(

DGRossetti · 09/04/2019 09:14

In another world ...

April 12th - T May addresses the public, sums up the past 3 years, and after admitting there was no Brexit which would not harm the country, the Union, and the people, revokes A50 before resigning. Her last political act is to pledge that there will be attempt to retrigger A50 in the lifetime of this parliament. Significant, because post-advisory-referendum we now know how a political pledge is written in stone.

The Tory party has to find a new leader. This is Boris' time. He can take the reins unable to do much ... but if there's one thing Boris can do, it's ride a reverse ferret. The next few weeks are a blitz of Boris telling us how the UK forced the EU to blink at the last, and pledging to "make their life hell".

Meanwhile, in Brussels, Department "B" is setup. The Guardian will claim it's "B" for "Brexit", the Express "B" for Boris and the Telegraph "B" for Britain. It's sole task is to draft incredibly detailed nit-picking directives and initiatives that will be tabled merely so Boris can make a big deal of vetoing them and "making Brussels unworkable" ... the measure to prevent the use of barleycorns when measuring feet; the measure to insist that English beer can only be sold in England, and outside England it's "English Drinking Beer". Both these will be reported rapturously in the Express as triumphs.

Meanwhile, the world turns.

MadAboutWands · 09/04/2019 09:16

BCG I agree.
And that’s why, as a firm believer in the European project, I fully agree with Macron. I do not want the uk being part of the EU for another 1 or 2 or 5 years wo guaranty that they won’t mess th8ngs up just out of spite.
The U.K. has already been the country who has voted NO in more or less any proposals at the EP in the last 10 years. The EU doesn’t need a tantruming country who can’t decide what to do but who is ready to unleash its anger on passer by.
Despite the very clear effect a No Deal would have on the U.K. (and myself for living here), I’d rather have that that the U.K. staying wo conditions.

Tanith · 09/04/2019 09:23

Could it be that whoever is administering the Home Office applications is being paid a bonus for the number of rejections?
It wouldn't matter if a claimant was subsequently able to provide proof so long as that initial rejection was sent out.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2019 09:23

Of the 4 million expats affected by Brexit, it's the 3 million in the UK who have to worry
... especially if we No Deal, when an ERG PM would need scapegoats and might remove those rights

I'm sure the WIndrush generation assumed for decades that they had settled status ....
right up until pensioners were denied NHS treatment for cancer , kicked out of their longterm council homes, deported to countries where they have no connections Angry

The 1 million of us in the E27 can expect our settled status will indeed be settled
EU laws protect non-EU residents too, against arbitrary decisions

Losing FOM is a bummer, but for nearly all of us it was an enjoyable privilege rather than a necessity
None of us will suffer shortages of meds or food (except maybe Marmite crisps Sad) in the event of No Deal

RedToothBrush · 09/04/2019 09:23

The U.K. has already been the country who has voted NO in more or less any proposals at the EP in the last 10 years. The EU doesn’t need a tantruming country who can’t decide what to do but who is ready to unleash its anger on passer by.

If the UK returned a lot more pro Europe MEPs how would you feel? A think polling suggests a reduction in the number of hostile MEPs.

As a side note, EU elections have the effect of being something of an opportunity to political parties outside the main ones. Without EU elections we almost lose something from domestic politics in terms of pluralism and it entrenched lab v con. This might be a good thing or a bad one.

Also are you more open to who you vote for in euros? As in, are you more likely to vote for the most pro eu options or stay more tribal (translation are you more likely to vote ld, green or other than at any other election?)

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FusionChefGeoff · 09/04/2019 09:26

What worries me about the 'political' implications of Cooper Letwin - seeing as I agree with Red that it's pointless now - is the main counter argument from opposition during the debate. Eg that it has set a 'dangerous' (depending on your POV) precedent for legislation to be rushed through the process.

Now I understand much more about how the whole process works, the drawn out delays / debates / amendments / votes stuff does at least mean that dodgy stuff would struggle to sneak through.

Now that Cooper Letwin has shown it can be done, could it be used for less positive means?