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Brexit
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Westminstenders: The gall of the french

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 22:04

We are full steam ahead with European Parliamentary Elections! Something that seemed unthinkable a few weeks ago.

May still remains adament that they will not happen, but the die has been cast.

May is off to beg Macron and Merkel to back an extension but the French are already stating they want assurances we won't screw thing up for everyone else.

May still is pushing for a deal with Corbyn and a Not a compromise.

Still there is no sign of a breakthrough either for an extension nor over a cross party deal. It drags on, but at least no one has mentioned the WA for ten minutes.

We might yet be in Europe for another Eurovision. Psychologically this feels important.

The ERG are not happy.

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DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 14:18

More Revoke and then hold a review into how to leave properly and whether it is worth the effort. He doesn't suggest it is a practical impossibility.

Like most realistic Remainers. I refute, reject and spit on any suggestion that Brexit was "impossible" (thus subtly painting remainers as lacking some sort of moral strength).

By all means, let the people that want to leave the EU give us a careful plan on how it will happen, and what to expect at each stage. Only don't be upset if when it's clear you are effectively "paying" for whatever benefits it brings, a lot of people suddenly lose interest.

If that proves a difficult ask because the wider population are sick of Brexit and have no more interest in a second go ... well, that's the lesson for this generation.

prettybird · 10/04/2019 14:36

A Shock plan Shock Whatever next? Wink

As Tusk so elegantly put it when he reserved "a special place in Hell for those that promoted Brexit without even a sketch a plan" Sad

I do find it very annoying when Brexiters/Leavers go on about the EU "blinking" Hmm when they offer an extension (and suggesting that they will "blink" again today) Confused (It's even happened on this thread not from a regular, who would know better )

Being pragmatic is not "blinking. Saving the UK from itself is not blinking. Offering May a way out which means she can abdicate responsibility for the next steps is not blinking. Confused

"Blinking" would be re-opening the WA.

"Blinking" would be allowing the UK to have its cake and eat it have full access to the SM and CU on a permanent basis without FoM.

"Blinking" would be letting her have the extension without the commitment to hold EU elections.

"Blinking" would be saying that you can leave with No Deal and we will let all UK goods come into the EU without checking because it will be too inconvenient for us to deal with.

Not. Going. To. Happen

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 14:37

"a practical impossibility."

It is, if we want to retain equivalent benefits to what we have within the EU
We'd be trading off "sovereignty" vs EU economic benefits

A "sensible" Brexit imo would be retaining as much as possible in a unique 3rd pillar EEA:

essential agencies and frictionless goods access, which means SIngle Market membership - and FOM -
and adding a customs arrangement,
with probably 100+ bilateral EU-UK deals - Norway has 50 of them and still has 1-2 hours delay for goods traffic into the EU, Switzerland has 150 deals

That would still lose our votes, but would let us negotiate trade deals that are compatible with SM regd

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2019 14:44

The EU statements the last few days keep reiterating that
any extension, whatever the length, excludes reopening the WA

So any Brexit, whatever PD and with whatever Parliamentary "lock" that May & Corbyn agree
must be compatible with the WA
and STILL requires Parliament to approve the WA

To start trade negotiations with the EU, even after No Deal, the UK has to approve the WA

The only way to avoid the WA is to Revoke

< we need to keep explaining this to Brexiters, especially those here with Brexity MPs >

Bearbehind · 10/04/2019 14:45

In PMQs today TM said ‘we could be out if you had voted for my deal’ or words to that effect.

She really doesn’t care who she blames does she?

Bearbehind · 10/04/2019 14:50

BCF you were quite right about the WA being non-negiotable whatever the circumstances - my apologies 😁

Shame this wasn’t understood by those who really needed to know, a long time ago.

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 14:53

I do find it very annoying when Brexiters/Leavers go on about the EU "blinking" when they offer an extension (and suggesting that they will "blink" again today)

Personally, I don't care how they justify it to themselves. If they want to believe the EU blinked. Great. If they want to believe it's Gods will, who am I to argue ? If they believe it was ordained in the book of Daniel (Hannon) - they can knock themselves out.

I'm guessing there's been some serious deep research across "le Manche" and the EU are gambling/have figured that an extension will stretch Brexit to breaking point. Each day past 29th being a tiny dagger in the heart. I'm guessing that the serious possibility of a forced no-deal was also considered, but felt to be less "EU like" ?

AutumnCrow · 10/04/2019 14:53

If Theresa May is as intelligent as Penny Mordaunt, which I suspect is the case, god help us all.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 10/04/2019 14:56

Can we please stop counting chickens? She can fuck this up. We can still crash out. We haven't won yet - nor is it certain we will. We are so close - now is not the time to start jinxing it.

Pretzels I must admit, when I came home at lunchtime and read some of the updates on this thread I assumed I’d missed some extremely big news...

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 14:56

In PMQs today TM said ‘we could be out if you had voted for my deal’ or words to that effect.

She's right though.

Weirdly this might reverse the decline in her standing ... although you have to wonder how much lower it could go .....

xebobfromUS · 10/04/2019 14:57

CordeliaEarhart

I read an article years ago about a man who decided to spend some time studying a particular tribe in Africa ( I think he was a social scientist or something ).

He noticed that the people sometimes would put their heads under a urinating cow and let the spray drip through their hair. He asked why did they do this to one particular individual. This individual replied that the urine helped kill the lice that their heads would sometimes become infested with.

He replied in a bit of cultural arrogance that he thought that was disgusting. The person he was talking to replied that their tribe thought it was disgusting that people like him drank the milk from cows, something their tribe would never do.

Urine is acidic which is why the tribe's method worked. Soda's are acidic too so if normal treatments are not available at the moment you might try pouring a can of soda through your hair to mimic the effects of the urine treatment. If that doesn't seem to work then you might want to consider either cutting your hair extremely short or even shaving it all off.

AutumnCrow · 10/04/2019 14:58

DGR, I'm banking that Tusk really doesn't want to shaft the British workforce and their dependents. But even he has limits - ie when the British government's idiocy affects too many others outside the UK, in Europe. Which is starting to happen ...

Bearbehind · 10/04/2019 15:00

She's right though.

Strictly speaking she’s right but her deal was shit and pleased no one.

She is just going to blame anyone else, whatever the outcome.

It’s long been set up to be the fault of ‘the people’ who’s will she was following.

Now it’s parliament for not voting for her shit deal, which was better than no deal despite her initial insistence that could never be the case.

What next?

prettybird · 10/04/2019 15:01

True DGR Grin

I'll stop getting annoyed and continue to ignore them Wink

AutumnCrow · 10/04/2019 15:03

We wouldn't be 'out' anyway. We'd be withdrawing. Slowly and painfully, with the human fatberg Mark Francois yipping away about pernicious albion and other words he doesn't understand.

bellinisurge · 10/04/2019 15:10

Fair point @AutumnCrow . We'd be withdrawing.
I suspect for some Real Brexit is only No Deal. Anything else is just Remainbrexit. No reasoning with that level of stoopid.

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 15:15

We are so close - now is not the time to start jinxing it.

Superstitious ?

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 15:16

What the hell Grin

We are so close - now is not the time to start jinxing it.

Superstitious ?

AutumnCrow · 10/04/2019 15:19

@bellinisurge I've been meaning to tell you, my DS is home from university for easter and has eaten all my stash biscuits. Funnily enough he hasn't touched the tinned sprouts. YOUNG PEOPLE OF TODAY

Sostenueto · 10/04/2019 15:19

I'm not taking anything for granted. We won't know properly what EU offers ( if anything) till the early hours of the morning and it only takes one no vote and we are scuppered. So I'm not relaxing at all yet.

bellinisurge · 10/04/2019 15:23

@AutumnCrow , you'll just have to get more chocolate!

Sostenueto · 10/04/2019 15:25

Also if they do give an extension and it turns out to be a long one with a whole list of conditions that will totally humiliate us ( not that will worry TM as humiliated as she already is) or are so restrictive TM could say no to them because it be too hard to comply to them.

DGRossetti · 10/04/2019 15:29

I suspect for some Real Brexit is only No Deal. Anything else is just Remainbrexit. No reasoning with that level of stoopid.

Suspect ? They've trumpeted it from the rooftops. The problems is that no deal was the one outcome that was explicitly denied during and immediately after the referendum. So when it started being mentioned, then being mentioned more, then appearing as a real outcome ... a lot of people who had put their faith in it not happening suddenly found that faith tested ... and wanting.

Apropos of nothing, but it feels it belongs here (as Boris would say, with "my people" ....) Afua Hirsch made an excellent point on Frankie Boyles NWO that teh media - BBC included and in particular - had legitimised certain unacceptable viewpoints in some naive and misguided idea of balance. The example she gave was that as some who takes a vocal anti-racist stance, she often finds herself in debates with racists on programmes. The implication being that "racism" is somehow a valid point of view that "balances" anti-racism. I found myself agreeing with her that it's a pernicious corruption of the idea of "balance" that lets the fascists in.

Dara O'Briain made a similar point about astrologers feeling they had a valid contribution to be made to the "debate" on the origins of the solar system (and got very TRA on the BBC when denied). I didn't see the clip Sad but apparently they addressed it on camera, and Prof Brian Cox was forced to say something like "In the interests of balance, can I just point out that astrology is a crock of nonsense" Grin.

Sostenueto · 10/04/2019 15:29

One thing I am almost sure of is that if EU gives extension the talks with labour will be finished as soon as she gets back with the blame for their failure firmly placed at labours feet. These meetings were never ever genuine. I believe both sides agreed to talks to avoid a no deal anyway.