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Brexit

Did anyone know what they were voting for?

112 replies

VictoriaReal · 08/04/2019 09:09

I voted Remain. A leave voter recently said to me how frustrating he finds it when people say Leave voters "didn't understand what they were voting for". I can empathise somewhat with his view that this statement can be generalising and patronising. However, his argument was "we [leave voters] DID know what we were voting for".... and my argument is: No you didn't- because NO-ONE knew! Not leave or remain voters.

How can anyone, leave or remain, claim to say they knew all the facts (unless of course they work in government or for the EU).

Did they really know all the associated issues and knock-on impacts of the vote?? Did anyone actually put two and two together about the Irish border? I don't even recall the Irish border being mentioned in the referendum campaign.

OP posts:
VictoriaReal · 08/04/2019 23:52

@Eateneasterchocsalready thanks "love". Hmm

Your post makes no sense.

MP's have rejected no deal because they are aware of the damage it would cause.

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VictoriaReal · 08/04/2019 23:54

45 years to pay £37 billion seems to be pessimistic. Would have thought what Uk no longer needs to pay EU would cover £37 billion sooner than 45 years?

Yup, let's just dismiss what the experts say and do our own back of the envelope calculation shall we?

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ineedaholidaynow · 08/04/2019 23:54

My DM voted to leave. She accepts now that she didn’t realise how difficult to leave would be and she thinks the referendum should never have happened as no-one really knew or understood what we were voting for.

However, she still wants to leave as her dislike of the EU has grown particularly in the last year. She can’t understand why the EU haven’t been helpful in the discussions. I do struggle with her reasoning but believe there are probably many Leavers who think like her.

VictoriaReal · 09/04/2019 00:00

Ineed... I feel the EU have been incredibly tolerant of all the dilly dallying and useless leadership TM has shown. I don't blame them one bit if they refuse another short extension without any concrete plan. They have constantly facilitated us not crashing out (as they know it's to everyone's detriment) and crossed over their previous red lines to accommodate TM.

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Jason118 · 09/04/2019 00:03

@Eateneasterchocsalready
Jason it means, rather than rolling up sleeves and thinking ok . I wanted to remain but the vote leave won.. let's work through this to get the best deal and outcome..
That's exactly what I did think the day after the referendum. I've been trying to find a plan that works for the country since then. Unfortunately there isn't one.

MayhemNowCertain · 09/04/2019 03:35

Yup, let's just dismiss what the experts say and do our own back of the envelope calculation shall we?

Some experts forecast instant collapse of the UK just by daring to vote leave. Never happened. Even Mark Carney is saying it is less gloomy than previously thought. Mervyn King seems to think that WTO will be the same as remain?

So how do you know which experts to listen to and those to ignore?

mimibunz · 09/04/2019 03:42

I think a lot of people voted against David Cameron and now he’s gone and the context of the vote has gone with him.

MayhemNowCertain · 09/04/2019 04:49

Some might say Cameron bought the 2015 General Election by promising a referendum. Obviously he thought remain would win easily, but at same time covered himself by saying he would step down if the result was leave.

Now T May (whose husband has huge interest in EU) is at the helm and she is a remainer. Never going to work as MP's will give priority to their own gains before those who vote, majorities or not.

Shinesweetfreedom · 09/04/2019 05:06

I am just wondering when the next General Election will be,I think after this the Conservatives will have a job beating Labour this time

MayhemNowCertain · 09/04/2019 05:17

Neither Conservative nor Labour are electable in the next General Election. Both said in 2017 they would deliver the result of the 2016 referendum. So far it has not happened.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 09/04/2019 08:45

With the exception of this

For the average person in the street UK has become two countries in one. The divide being those who voted remain and those who voted leave

I agree completely with mayhems post

Smile
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 09/04/2019 08:47

I dont agree with anything else...

1tisILeClerc · 09/04/2019 08:49

MayhemNowCertain
{Whether or not UK will be better off after leaving the EU will only become apparent after sufficient time has passed to allow the benefits to materialise. It was never going to be an overnight switch with instant benefits.}

Well my bank account certainly took a hit immediately, and what with making my job harder, losing clients, threats to my pension entitlement I would say that leavers have some serious work to do to recover that. Bellyaching that you want to leave but not working out a plan of how to do it is beyond pathetic.
Since as you say we are all entitled to our own opinion, my opinion is that Leavers should be compensating the people who did not vote for this balls up.

DGRossetti · 09/04/2019 09:24

One theory is paedophilic gang stole her and was able too get her several countries away within hours due to open boarders.

There are theories that the Earth is flat too. And that Lord Lucan and Shergar ended up stablemates.

There are whackhat theories about anything you can think of, they're aren't really a great basis for important decisions.

DGRossetti · 09/04/2019 09:28

I'm sorry DGRossetti, I didn't know you would take my post totally out of context. I had made it clear that I was talking about the leave vote not having a structure laid out or a legal framework. Perhaps I need to repeat that each time - I didn't realise.

reply at face value (ignoring a PA reply Grin) I did realise exactly what you meant. It's you that missed the point of my reply ....

I don't think "Leave" and "Remain" were somehow equal propositions that required an equal level of justification to back, and it annoys me when Leavers try and claim that Remain voters were somehow making the same "you don't know what you were voting for" choice that Leavers did, and that somehow makes it acceptable to have voted Leave - which the shitstorm we are living through - because it was the same voting Remain.

MayhemNowCertain · 09/04/2019 09:38

leavers have some serious work to do to recover that. Bellyaching that you want to leave but not working out a plan of how to do it is beyond pathetic

The vote was a simple choice between leave and remain. Many different ways to leave and hence not possible to list then all on the ballot paper. Plus government at the time (Cameron) thought that leave would never win and hence thought a simple leave or remain choice would be enough.

Cameron even wound his neck out by saying it was a once only referendum. Must have pooed his pants when the final result was known. However, he had made sure that as an individual he had an escape plan by saying that if the result was leave he would step down.

Once vote has been cast and the result is known it is then the government's task to implement the result. Bit like a judge and a jury. Once the jury has reached a verdict the judge then has to pass sentence or acquit. Regardless of the judges own opinion they are not allowed to overrule the jury's verdict.

This is where Brexit has failed. Too many MP's thinking they can ignore what voters said and are pursuing their own goals and what is best for their parties.

The WA was far from perfect, but at least it was a start. Yes it was voted down heavily, but the sticking point seemed to the Ireland backstop. Find a solution to that or have confidence that technology would provide a solution in a short time I think the WA would have got through parliament. However, some might say that Labour voted down everything that May proposed just to be awkward?

So where are we now? In complete chaos and T May running to Brussels for yet more extensions to Article 50. Some remainers might think that perpetual extensions will lead to either GE or second referendum or both and Brexit will be washed away.

That may happen, but what about the cost to businesses in both UK and in other EU members in the meantime? Some businesses might just leave the UK on the basis that the uncertainty has no end in sight and they don't want to be based in the UK? Even those Countries that UK hoped to make new deals with after Brexit must be asking themselves "does the UK have any idea what they are doing"

Also the more UK flounders around the greater the risk of a no deal. Whilst in my circumstances a no deal would not scare me (I am dual resident in UK and in South East Asia and most of my work is outside UK) it would certainly be a concern for those "average people" who have; always been UK based, young children, property and pensions in the UK that will very likely take a hit in a no deal scenario.

Many MP's and in particular the likes of JRM will feel little impact of a no deal as they are already well off and could relocate to another country if it was obvious UK was going down the pan.

Would I support leave again? Not sure if I would support anything after seeing UK governments performance since the referendum.

katseyes7 · 09/04/2019 09:41

l voted Remain, because quite frankly l hadn't a clue what we were voting for, and l went with the premise of 'better the devil you know'.
l'm still none the wiser after all this time.

Mistigri · 09/04/2019 09:44

l voted Remain, because quite frankly l hadn't a clue what we were voting for, and l went with the premise of 'better the devil you know'.

If you voted for the "devil you know", then by definition you knew what you were voting for.

IalwayswantedtobeBeth · 09/04/2019 09:44

Neither Conservative nor Labour are electable in the next General Election. Both said in 2017 they would deliver the result of the 2016 referendum. So far it has not happened.

Mayham I can't believe it is news to you but not everyone will vote in a GE on the basis of Brexit. After 10 years, eight of which were unnecessary austerity I certainly know what I will not vote for and what I will - Brexit does not have anything to do with a GE as far as I am concerned and you would think the Tories might have learned that lesson.

girlofthenorth · 09/04/2019 09:49

Yes I voted remain, and felt strongly about the reasons I voted, to do with NHS ( I work in the nhs) freedom of movement, and opportunities in Europe for my children .i did feel though, that it , the process, and info was very confusing and difficult to negotiate.

IalwayswantedtobeBeth · 09/04/2019 09:54

DGRossetti I am sorry but all I understand from your reply is that you believe I didn't understand the previous one. I don't understand what you are saying in this on either I'm afraid.

TangyToms · 09/04/2019 09:58

I voted remain. I voted for me and dd to stay alive as we're both T1 diabetics on insulin pumps.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 09/04/2019 10:02

Brexit does not have anything to do with a GE as far as I am concerned and you would think the Tories might have learned that lesson

You would think so

I dont reckon thats the case though

MayhemNowCertain · 09/04/2019 10:09

"devil you know"

that could be interpreted as fear of change

DGRossetti · 09/04/2019 10:09

DGRossetti I am sorry but all I understand from your reply is that you believe I didn't understand the previous one. I don't understand what you are saying in this on either I'm afraid.

Best stop there, or the universe might implode Grin

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