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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 13:53

The PM can Revoke by a simple letter to the EU Commission:

"oops sorry, I hereby Revoke A50 and we're coming back.

lots of love, Treeze
PS also sorry about those billions you've all spent"

horseshit · 08/04/2019 13:58

May revoking Art 50 and officially blaming the ERG for forcing her hand and watching as the no dealers destroy themselves is my Brexit fantasy. A girl can dream...

1tisILeClerc · 08/04/2019 14:00

{PS also sorry about those billions you've all spent"}

That's fine Mrs May but we would like to say that due to foreseen circumstances that the price of lettuces has gone up a bit.
About €10,000 each.

yolofish · 08/04/2019 14:00

I wonder if she has a little angel on one shoulder, saying come on Treez, do the right thing - and a little devil on the other, saying nah fuck it do your worst!

DGRossetti · 08/04/2019 14:01

Little diversion for Franco-philes/phones here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-47790128

For what it's worth, I've found African French much clearer and mellifluous than most native ... maybe a similar experience to Trevor McDonalds beautiful English diction ?

Transforming French in five key phrases

<span class="italic">Wesh? - a slang phrase used in France to mean "what's up?" from the Algerian dialect of Arabic</span>

<span class="italic">Je suis enjaillé(e) de toi - a phrase used in Ivory Coast meaning "I really like you". "Enjailler" is a slang word from Nouchi, Ivorian patois, which some say derives from the English "enjoy"</span>

<span class="italic">Deuxième bureau - a phrase used in DR Congo. Its literal translation is "second office", but it means "mistress"</span>

<span class="italic">Ça avance ndank-ndank - a phrase used in Senegal meaning "it's moving forward slowly", using "ndank-ndank", a Wolof word for "little by little"</span>

<span class="italic">Je wanda - meaning "I wonder", "no way" or " I can't believe it", a popular expression in Cameroon and even the name of a gossip magazine, taken from the English word "to wonder" and reflecting the country's use of English, French and Pidgin</span>
WorriedMutha · 08/04/2019 14:02

We need a few more reformed Brexiteers in the Peter Oborne mould to out themselves. I feel we are reaching a tipping point. In his long mea culpa piece, he refers to other politicians and journos feeling the same but not wishing to out themselves. Please let them be outed.

1tisILeClerc · 08/04/2019 14:05

{Please let them be outed.}

Well it's either them out or everyone out on Friday.

GroovieGazelloo · 08/04/2019 14:13

Thanks for the Dico DGR.

Giving a direct translation for a conversation I overheard in a café, here in France last week. 2 workmen sorted out Brexit in less than 30 seconds...

"All they need to do is say they've changed their minds . Anyone can make a mistake"

Music to my ears.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 08/04/2019 14:25

All they need to do is say they've changed their minds . Anyone can make a mistake

Maybe Macron will give Teresa the same advice tomorrow.

GroovieGazelloo · 08/04/2019 14:29

Hmm- wonder where they are on the kissing cheeks / hand shake repertoire...

Hope Macron stayed on the safe side of the handshaking. Once the kisses start there'd be no going back.Blush

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 08/04/2019 14:46

All they need to do is say they've changed their minds . Anyone can make a mistake"

Groovie. I love this. And I shudder to think what the Britsh workmen would be saying if the situation were reversed...

lonelyplanetmum · 08/04/2019 14:49

"All they need to do is say they've changed their minds . Anyone can make a mistake"

If you add:

  1. The time isn't right now; or
  1. We need to revoke and work from within the EU to enable withdrawal trade agreements to be negotiated in parallel.

That my appease the ERG cabal. On the subject of the latter why don't we hear much of internal ego clashes and conflicts?

Exploiting their cohesion would help massively. Let's help divide them...I've heard JRM is really disapproving of BoJo's infidelities...

woman19 · 08/04/2019 14:52

@IanDunt
"After hubris, comes nemesis". He actually wrote that.

PestyMachtubernahme · 08/04/2019 14:56

Can't she just form a national government, revoke and withdraw the whip from the 40 or so most annoying ERGers? Yes, it is radical and would throw her out of power quite soon, but she would go down in history for cleansing the Tory party of the extreme right wing section. A positive legacy Grin

lonelyplanetmum · 08/04/2019 14:57

OMG

May has been a failure as Leader of our Party, which she now threatens to destroy. Hers is a classic example of hubris – and after hubris, comes nemesis.”

What does that even mean ?

Wasn't Nemesis a Greek goddess ?

Either it's a coincidence or Francois has been on here. About 500 threads ago I postulated this theory it was me honestly! We were taking about who post empire hubris was a contributory factor in all this mess.

I went and researched ( googled) the Greek use of hubris. It was a stage of Greek tragedy.
1.Hubris
2.Nemisis

  1. Catharsis

I postulated that our " we don't need anyone " empire hubris would lead to nemesis so economic and social hardship and ostracism. Then eventually for our children's generation maybe there would be catharsis in the shape of more humility, tolerance and international cooperation.

Either worryingly Francois thinks like me or he's been lurking.

lonelyplanetmum · 08/04/2019 14:57

How not Who

DGRossetti · 08/04/2019 14:58

2. We need to revoke and work from within the EU to enable withdrawal trade agreements to be negotiated in parallel.

Really, it would have made a lot of sense to revisit the A50 process and get that fit for purpose (which would have required EU27 cooperation) so that triggering it was a one-stop-shop operation with no need for complex negotiations as part of the A50 process and a straight drop into post-EU life for the UK. Instead the UK has taken the place of a crash test dummy for ejector seat testing.

Littlespaces · 08/04/2019 14:59

How many Labour MP's support a confirmatory vote?

PestyMachtubernahme · 08/04/2019 15:01

Nobody knows what most MPs really think, most votes are whipped for one way or another.

woman19 · 08/04/2019 15:02

One wonders what the wee fellah's fury is compensating for?
Did he and yaxley lennon have to stand on boxes to deliver their shoutings at their little rally?

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
Mistigri · 08/04/2019 15:03

How many Labour MP's support a confirmatory vote?

Roughly 200 Labour MPs voted for the indicators people's vote motion.

Littlespaces · 08/04/2019 15:03

I think somebody said that a large group of Labour MP's have sent a letter asking for another vote on the reality of the situation.

Mistigri · 08/04/2019 15:04

"Indicative"

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 15:04

Steven Swinford@steven_swinford
Looks like Pizza Club ministers - Javid, Leadsom, Grayling, Gove etc - are as per @SamCoatesTimes seeing PM in No10 at around 1

Expect them to warn against long A50 extension and probe for more details on the PM’s new Brexit offer to Labour ahead of talks this evening

New

Theresa May has invited another delegation of Cabinet ministers into No 10 for a meeting at 5pm

They include:

Gavin Williamson, Matt Hancock, Amber Rudd, David Gauke, Alun Cairns, Karen Bradley, David Mundell

They're expecting a briefing on the Brexit offer to Labour

Interesting how Williamson isn't a member of 'pizza club' and is apparently the hardest liner on no extension and pro no deal.

Yet everyone else at Pizza Club is leaning leave and everyone else at the later meeting are remain leaning.

It's almost as if pizza club don't trust Williamson.

OP posts:
Littlespaces · 08/04/2019 15:04

Thanks. X post.

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