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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

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OublietteBravo · 07/04/2019 16:16

I wonder what the people who are advocating for no deal actually hear when they listen to the ERG and other prominent Brexiters.

I hear the politicians saying that “we can make a success of a no deal Brexit.” I note the language used, the way the statement is framed. They’re not saying it will be a success are they? They’re not even saying it’s a good thing. In fact they’re really just saying it might not be a failure.

Are the no deal advocates hearing something different?

And who do they mean when they say “we”? Does that include you, me, the woman on the street? Or is it just about them and their wealthy cronies? Who is going to do the work? Who is going to see the success? Are they the same people. What do you think? What do you really think? Does their past behaviour indicate that they can be trusted? Well does it?

DGRossetti · 07/04/2019 16:22

I'm seeing it now, I've been trying to hire a post in my group since December, just closed a 2nd round of applications because there were no suitable candidates in the 1st.

A couple of technical forums I lurk on are reporting similar. One interesting observation/comment/fact was that some positions went to non-UK nationals because it was easier for them to (re) locate for the role which is intriguing. Basically it means it's easier to hire someone from France to come over and do a job because the UK based applicants can't afford to move (or won't commit to such a change in an uncertain labour market).

So Brexit (as predicted) is the falling tide that is starting to strand high floating boats ......

prettybird · 07/04/2019 16:27

To be 100% accurate, Andrew Bridgen opened his mouth and spouted nonsense said that all English people had the right to Irish passports Shock (although to be fair Wink iirc, he did qualify it with "don't they?" Confused)

But in his Little England mindset, English does = British Hmm

DGRossetti · 07/04/2019 16:30

I wonder what the people who are advocating for no deal actually hear when they listen to the ERG and other prominent Brexiters.

They hear exactly what they want to hear. Just like the people who fall for the Nigerian scams. Do you want to make a shed load of money doing fuck all ??????

One thing I am going to guess separates most leavers and remainers, is that a lot of remainers know there's no such thing as a free lunch, and start every day accordingly.

woodpigeons · 07/04/2019 16:39

The epilepsy medication mentioned in the leaked document was Pregabalin and Gabapentin. They can’t be stockpiled due to shortage in the supply chain.
It specifically said those also used for neuropathic pain. I’m taking Pregabalin for pain, I checked and afaik no others are used for pain.
Of course others may also be unable to be stockpiled but it didn’t mention any others.
I’ll be OK without it ; it will just be very unpleasant. If I was taking it for epilepsy I would be contacting my GP to find out what I should do.
I don’t know if the holdup is anything to do with the fact that they have just been listed as controlled drugs due to recreational use/abuse.
Don’t see why it should but then I don’t know how these things work.
.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2019 16:39

No Deal or WA makes v little difference to me personally, just a slight difference in the residence forms i have to fillout

However, I can't say a big "Fuck You, have your No Deal then"
because other people, including Westministenders, are dependent on meds which may not be available

Also, it would put the UK in a dreadfully weak negotiating position after No Deal

because we'd still have to sign up to the WA
before the EU would even start negotiations, even on "mini-deals"

- we'd have lost all the transition benefits and crashed out, just to sign up to the WA in a few months when we're on our knees, maybe under the IMF

PostNotInHaste · 07/04/2019 16:43

Our glorious leader has addressed the nation from a sofa, video on the Express page.

MissMalice · 07/04/2019 16:49

Our glorious leader has addressed the nation from a sofa, video on the Express page.

Repetitive still but seemed almost human. But labour are still saying the government is unwilling to move on their position.

Horehound · 07/04/2019 16:50

What's the fuck!

The80sweregreat · 07/04/2019 16:50

Is She on u tube?
Is the sofa from DFS?

Horehound · 07/04/2019 16:51

She's sewing the seeds of blaming labour. I dont think I have ever seen anything like this. It's like a message to "the idiots."

Mistigri · 07/04/2019 16:58

Does the Home Office not employ anyone with a brain these days? How can you refuse people with the requisite length of residence?

I think this is a computer-said-no. But if the computer says no to people in stable government-funded employment there are going to be lot of issues with people further down the pecking order.

There was someone else on twitter yesterday saying that the app could find no record of NI contributions in the last 6 months despite her having been employed continuously by the same employer for at least the last 5 years.

A lot of applications will be granted smoothly, but what matters isn't the % who get the right status but the % that don't.

Shitsngiggles79 · 07/04/2019 16:59

So in the space of two weeks she goes from megalomaniac dictator spitting her dummy out in a rant live on tv to kindly auntie having a pre-recorded word on the sofa and still spouting bollocks. 🙄🤨

woodpigeons · 07/04/2019 17:02

I’m one of those much maligned baby boomers. Not rich because I spent a great deal of my life doing aid work overseas for the ** British government, but my mortgage is paid off and I’ll be OK. If the NHS kills me so be it. I’ve had most of my life and I’m not worrying about myself.
What I don’t understand is how those in my largely middle class, Tory, lot of farming, hunting, shooting, constituency voted overwhelmingly to leave.
Don’t they, like me, have children and grandchildren with mortgages and jobs. Their vote has made their lives much more difficult and narrow.
Maybe it was the immigrant card but they certainly aren’t deprived in any way. There are no deprived areas in the constituency.

DGRossetti · 07/04/2019 17:02

The epilepsy medication mentioned in the leaked document was Pregabalin and Gabapentin. They can’t be stockpiled due to shortage in the supply chain. It specifically said those also used for neuropathic pain.

DW has a delicate cocktail of medicines ... (we'll put to one side the fact that we have no information or idea what the situation with as regards the internal pump she was fitted with Sad - best not to think about that). Gabapentin is one of her ingredients ... there was a trial withdrawal period, but it seems she needs some to allow useful core mobility. Because we trust no one (sometimes not even each other Grin) the past two years we've been carefully adjusting dosages, reporting and prescribing to build up as functional a stockpile as we can. We have a nuclear option of getting DB to send stuff over from the US - assuming the postal service works if there's no deal.

I probably wouldn't, but after noting things like the preceding, it's a good job I'm nowhere near one of these glib leavers, as a plank in their grinning face might be "a happening".

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 07/04/2019 17:09

Revoke is still a complete Remainer Unicorn, isn't it?

I mean, we shouldn't be reading anything at all into her saying 'If we don't get a deal, we will end up with no Brexit at all. And I am now finally admitting that I know my deal is dead'...should we?

I'm fantasising, aren't I?

Mistigri · 07/04/2019 17:11

Peter Oborne is the latest hard Brexit merchant to recant:

www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/

DGRossetti · 07/04/2019 17:15

Revoke is still a complete Remainer Unicorn, isn't it?

So was the fall of the Berlin Wall, or seeing Nelson Mandela freed ....

67chevvyimpala · 07/04/2019 17:15

Sadly, I know many of each "type" of leaver...

Well off "pull up the drawbridge" types, poor, uneducated "believe everything you read in the sun" types.

I know several ex colleagues who have 2/3 jobs (all min wage) to make ends meet who all voted leave, despite them all living in rented accomodation, having multiple health issues and 1 has DC with sen.

I think my pil voted leave. They read the DM and torygraph.

We don't really talk about it. They are very unhappy that my DC have dual nationality now.

If it does come up in conversation, I point out how much harder their grandchildrens life will be and how worried I am about mums medication issues.

They keep very quiet.

singswithitsfingers · 07/04/2019 17:15

Just delurking (late in the day after catching up with other reports of dreams) to say that I dreamed I was an MP and was late to the indicative votes. Seems to have replaced my recurring late for final uni exams dream ...

borntobequiet · 07/04/2019 17:16

I’m always surprised by how reasonable Peter Oborne sounds when on Any Questions and suchlike.
World This Weekend was reporting total collapse of Conservative support reported by councillors prior to local elections. “Wipe out” was the expression used iirc.

IrenetheQuaint · 07/04/2019 17:17

That's a good article by Peter Oborne (who is a decent man, in the traditional Tory mould which the ERGers are trying to so hard to destroy).

Jux · 07/04/2019 17:17

I too have a delicate cocktail of medicines. I have some saved, might last a month maybe two, but not of everything. Some of them I am affected pretty well immediately if I miss a dose. One of my meds has just been reclassifiedand and is now Controlled. I have no idea where I might get any missing meds and certainly no idea how I could afford them if I were able to get them.

So far, the controlled one has been hinted at as having shortages.

Mistigri · 07/04/2019 17:19

Oborne is decent for a Tory brexiter, but that's a big recant. He is or was as brexity as my dad and that is pretty brexity!

woodpigeons · 07/04/2019 17:20

DGRossetti that’s awful for your DW. I’m glad you have a little stockpile but it must be so worrying for you both.
I am going to write to my GP tomorrow, much quicker than getting an appointment, asking if he will prescribe some more but apparently he won’t prescribe more than a month’s supply as it’s a controlled drug.