Westminstenders: The Bill Cash Appreciation Society

[RedToothBrush]

We've had a new thread pretty much everyday for the last week or so, so I'm short on inspiration.

There haven't been too many new developments today. There have been two ministerial resignations. Both were ministers close to Boris Johnson.

We had a vote to add an extension if we still have no deal agreed at the end of next week to the Withdrawal Bill. May has said she will do this anyway; this would merely tie her hands. It passed by 5 votes. It now is fast tracked to the committee stage and third reading.

A business of the house amendment by Benn to secure a debate and Indicative Vote 3 next week failed after a speakers vote. Bercow followed convention and didn't create a majority where there was not one (though under Erskine May he is free to do the opposite at his discretion).

Corbyn has met May for talks which have been described as construction, though we have no further details though curiously Emily Thornberry put out a statement demanding a ref on whatever was decided which suggests Corbyn isn't keen on the idea. Rumours are of Schrodingers Customs Union: somehow being in a union but not a union. It can't be called a customs union. And Liam Fox has said Corbyn can't have his union. Though he may have a vested interest as he loses his job if Corbyn gets his way.

Oh and the Commons photocopier broke so no one knows what is currently supposed to be happening.

Otherwise it's been a quiet day, all things considered. Too quiet?

"The USA state pension scheme is based on your income contributions via your taxes taken directly from your salary. The pension is means tested and is payable on retirement age."

The UK state pension is neither means tested nor related to actual tax contributions. I highly doubt it is actually less generous than the US.

www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/retirechart.html

There is an issue with (mainly women) who don't have a full 35 year contribution record but they can still access pension credit and housing benefit.

Sorry somewhat labouring the point, but headlines like these are often used to support the continuation of universal pension benefits at the expense of working age benefits. I support universal pensioner benefits BUT only if the wealthy ones are also paying NI on retirement earnings and if the tax base for investments (mostly held by the elderly) had not been eroded so comprehensively.

Lords update!

They keep putting stfu motions and read out a statement about how extraordinary the stfu motion is. Kind of lost its punch after the 3rd time.
Now, I’m no expert, but I highly doubt the Cooper Bill will receive RA in time for the summit next week.

Pink Lady who tabled the business motion seems to have had enough since ERG peers put down amendments and then use their time to argue against her motion. She’s seriously pissed off in the lordiest of ways.

howabout Your 2nd ring suggestion sounds much like the EU offer Cameron refused

I suggested it soon after the ref, also after the WA was agreed, as a possible deal to be negotiated during transition
However, all the Leavers I mentioned this to, hate it, just like Cameron did

Cameron said the UK must always be at the top table, making the big decisions (despite not being in the Eurozone)
BUT
although he wanted to make laws binding other members, he wanted the UK to be able to reject all those laws & regs it didn't like - and not to be bound by the ECJ

He was the original cake artist

Don't forget:
If we did Revoke, it would take years / decades to rebuild British influence within the EU,
after this debacle of becoming a laughing stock, a failed state in waiting

I was reading the NI milk lake article and trying to get my head around the reality of a post no deal border.

I live in Ireland as do most of my family but 2 of my siblings and their families live in NI.
When my siblings come to my parents house they bring their dog so as not to leave him at home. This might become illegal.
When we have a family get together my SIL can’t bring a lasagne across the border.

I grew up on the border with soldiers and check points as normal. I can’t believe we might actually have to deal with this shit in a weeks time.

So if the Lords don’t pass it, then what?!

Is there no HoC or Holt Farm tomorrow?

The awful things about the treatment of immigrants reminds me. My father, dead 22 years now, was born in Rangoon (then Burma) to white British parents in 1928. In 1946 he came to the UK for the first time in his life, and joined the Royal Navy. He served for almost 40 years - went to war etc - but every time he had to renew his passport he had to jump through incredible hoops and it took forever, every single time. Like he was good enough to be in the RN, but praps a bit dodgy in the old citizenship stakes...

So if the Lords don’t pass it, then what?!

In this case, it's "deaded".

If it were a bill to implement a manifesto pledge, the HoC could ram it through using the 1911 (?) Parliament Act.

But it's not.

If time were not of the essence, it could be represented next parliamentary session, and if it was rejected again, the HoC could then use the Parliament Act.

Theresa Mays decision to have a 2-year parliamentary session raised eyebrows back in 2017 - people noted then it would prevent non-manifesto bills being rammed through.

The UK state pension is indeed the lowest and those who live solely on that, plus top-up benefits, are in great hardship

That is an entirely separate issue from wealthy pensioners not having to pay NI or having higher tax-free allowances for investment income

There is a huge gulf between those who have only the state pension and those who have substantial, sometimes index-linked pensions from work
Or of course those with great inherited wealth

I favour taxing pensioners just like anyone else, including NI
It is very costly to means test the state pension - and controversial wrt those who have paid in, not like a "benefit"

So, raise the state pension to help the poorest, but tax everyone the same, regardless of age
Anyone with extra expenses due to disability should go through the same process of DLA etc as the younger disabled

I also favour those with assets paying up to 100k total for their care,
rather than those who will never have an inheritance paying tax to sabe the inheritance of the more privileged.

Of course, with the powerful "Grey Wealth" voters, that have a very high voting level, all such ideas are doomed

The awful things about the treatment of immigrants reminds me. My father, dead 22 years now, was born in Rangoon (then Burma) to white British parents in 1928.

My DMs father was born in Darjeeling.

By the way, it's not been that long since Joanna Lumley shamed the government into acknowledging the Gurkhas ....

Agreed on Cameron Bigchoc. The problem then was that Cameron presented it as "the best I could do begrudgingly given opt outs" to maximise the impression he had driven a hard bargain. If it had instead been presented as the starting point for a new relationship rather than the UK permanently on the naughty step then the reception may well have been different.

I also think dynamics within rEU have moved on considerably since then since there seems to be a growing realisation that "ever closer union" and federalism is a necessity for the Eurozone but not necessarily deliverable / wanted for everyone else.

Cameron approached the whole relationship with Scotland in much the same way. EVEL (English votes for English laws) delivers his cakist approach in Westminster and also a natural Tory majority when only English MPs are voting. It was scarcely debated and increasingly Barnet consequentials are presented as crumbs from the English table.

The insulation of some pensioners from the effects of government policy should be a massive incentive to the young to fucking vote.

Hallelujah DG

I agree with you on pensions as well Bigchoc.

Indeed, DG The young are already outnumbered by the old
Add that to the difference in voting levels and it is obvious why cynical politicians have favoured the wealthy old over everyone young

Not sure I entirely agree with this but it is an interesting contribution. In part, I'd say it supports the argument I try to make about representative and direct democracy.

ukandeu.ac.uk/the-key-flaw-in-our-democracy-mps-dont-represent-the-people/

Generally an interesting site, IMO. I have read a good amount of what they've put out over the past 2/3 years.

The pension issue, both state and private and lack thereof of both is a ticking time bomb that successive governments have kicked down the road since I was working in the industry moons ago.

What's Cameron even doing now these days? Do you think he ever dare re-emerge?

Add that to the difference in voting levels and it is obvious why cynical politicians have favoured the wealthy old over everyone young

I just don't get why anyone would want benefit at the expense of the young.

What's Cameron even doing now these days?

He's supposed to be writing his memoirs in his Shepherd's Hut, but he's probably waiting for the night before the publisher's deadline before he does the actual chapters.

They say she can be put in a care home in her own country for the time she has left.

This doesn't surprise me.

I've sat in a meeting of MH professionals and social workers debating the moral quandary of whether to take someone who now had capacity off a section knowing they would immediately be deported to somewhere they hadn't lived for decades and had no family or friends. While sectioned they couldn't deport this person so it was the only thing keeping them safe but clearly unethical to section someone who now is recovering. It was tragic and appalling and sadly not uncommon.

Inniu, someone posted the Tony Connelly article about collecting milk along the border on a recent thread - he speaks very clearly about the insanity of it all towards the end of the last Brexit Republic, which I highly recommend for anyone interested in hearing another, very measured and intelligent perspective from the EU. The accents are very soothing too.

www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_brexitrepublic.xml

They say she can be put in a care home in her own country for the time she has left.

Don't forget the DWP "logic" that a persons claim for ESA can be declined if there are aids or adaptations available that can enable a function.

"Available" as in "can be bought", not "available" as in readily available to the claimant.

So a lot of claimants were declined because there are wheelchairs "available" that would get them to work. Putting aside the fact they (a) cost £5,000+ and (b) aren't supplied on the NHS.

There is a very old joke about a customer reducing a hotel bill with similar "logic".

Update on lords horseshit

I think I'll have a name change in honour of today's events in HOL.

@faisalislam
NEW: government and Opposition sources acknowledge “peace talks” over Cooper-Letwin passage in Lords which could kick later stages into Monday. Acknowledgement that procedural tactics may have worked in delaying consideration of actual Bill.

Royal Assent still poss Monday tho.

@faisalislam
If it did then get Royal Assent on Monday - then PM would have to return Tuesday and by law have to name an extension date she will ask for at EU Summit Wednesday.

In a no deal situation the old not getting their meds might be a bit of a vote loser. And not because anyone's changed their minds.

Saying she's going for extension then throwing it is only way to stop her cabinet quit. Then she can feign misfortune of some kind.

I had actually typed in a bit for inniu about not being able to bring your ham sandwiches to the beach in Donegal and deleted it only to find that it is obviously a key cause of concern for my co-citizens

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-buying-ham-sandwich-in-derry-to-eat-in-donegal-could-be-illegal-from-saturday-week-1.3849639