What did the uk do before they joined the EU?

[Hellenbackagen]

I'm wondering why people are so keen to stay within the EU?

How does it deliver value for money?

What are the benefits?

What did the uk do and how did it trade before it joined the EU?

Why are people so scared of leaving?

I'd be really grateful if anyone can explain or anyone who remembers why we joined can explain the difference before and after,

Thanks.

At the point where the UK joined the EEC the UK was buggered, 'the sick man of Europe'.
It has since spent over 40 years integrating with other European countries to create a very powerful, and mostly 'rich' trading block but with the secondary purpose, as proposed by Winston Churchill post WW2 to reduce the risk of future war in Europe.

In those 40 or more years global trade and alliances have changed massively and any small country, like the UK needs to be part of a much bigger 'bloc'. The 'Empire' is well and truly gone so the UK is essentially Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England, with a few small rocks scattered around the world as dependencies.
The UK can 'go it alone' in the world, but as it has few natural resources, and cannot feed itself it is strongly reliant on trade with others. Historically the population of the UK has a very strong relationship with Europe and as it is 'only' 20 miles across the channel being closely tied makes sense, certainly compared to other possible 'suitors'.

Here are my answers

I'm wondering why people are so keen to stay within the EU?
Because it is our long-term interests, and leaving is damaging

How does it deliver value for money?
I think so, seeing how little we pay for it, but this a rather transactional way of viewing it. How much is peace in Europe worth paying for. It is a political project

What are the benefits?
There are very very many, including economic prosperity, collaboration in research, global influence, workers rights, etc.

What did the uk do and how did it trade before it joined the EU?
We were desperate to join because we were doing so poorly compared to our European neighbours.

Why are people so scared of leaving?
Because leaving will cause a lot of damage.

In the heyday of the British Empire, around 150 years ago, Britain 'ruled' nearly half the planet. This was done involving a lot of killing and theft, so some places that suffered particularly badly during this time may not be too upset if the UK runs into a spot of bother.

Why is OP asking this now? Wasn't the time to ask that back 3 years ago, so that you could cast your vote in an informed manner?

Why is OP asking this now?

New voter ?

What did the uk do and how did it trade before it joined the EU?

You can't compare what happened then to now. The times of 'Britain was great' largely depended on us having an empire which is now well and truly gone and many of those countries feel that Britain treated them very badly.

Britain is now competing against established trading blocks that are much bigger than it such as the EU, NAFTA, China. We will actually just be a very little country of not much importance when it comes to doing our own deals.

We can't feed ourselves - we didn't feed ourselves during the war despite rationing and the home front, again we relied on the Atlantic Convoys and the Empire.

Many of the leading Brexiteers trading model is to run down manufacturing and just turn us into a giant tax haven - fine for a few people in finance, rubbish for everyone else.

1972 was a long time ago.

Exotic foreign foods like spaghetti not in a tin and "Italian Rarebit" were the stuff of fancy restaurants. The market for Morris Minors in New Zealand was not enough to keep British Leyland in business. And the coal miners on whose dangerous and toxic labour the nation depended to keep the lights on were starting to ask why they were paid less than London typists.

On the plus side, Mark I Raleigh Choppers, doorstep milk deliveries and two posts a day.

'Is that you Theresa'?

I am old enough to remember, the things it did very well were power cuts, 3 day weeks, massive inflation, rubbish piling up in the streets etc. It was a dream

You really need to go back to 1957 and the Treaty of Rome which is the heart of the organisation that became the EEC, EC and now EU.

TL;DR - originally set up as a trading bloc over coal and steel with intention of binding Europe into a place where something like WW2 could never happen again. Pretty quickly started to work and member countries began to outpace the UK in terms of industrial production. To an extent that early to mid 1960s the UK started to want "in" and repeatedly asked to "join the club" until 1973 when we were admitted under a conservative government which collapsed soon after. The subsequent Labour government (some of whom hated the idea of the EEC) offered a referendum to the UK on staying in. The people ignored Labours recommendation to vote Leave and voted 67% to stay in. As part of the campaign people were told that the EEC was aiming for closer political and economic union.

That may not help the OP, but it can't hurt.

To answer the OP, "What did the UK do before it joined the EEC ?"

Pretty much everything. Part of the benefits of being in the EEC/EC/EU was to pool the costs of expenses like testing, regulation, specification so that (for example) a car made anywhere in the EU can be sold anywhere in the EU, despite only having to get one approval. So before the UK joined the EU, any car manufacturer needed to spend money on two processes of approvals. One for the UK. One for the EU. Only needing one saved a few quid per car. Ditto anything else we make and sell. (If the UK leaves, one thing other countries will miss is the British contribution to testing and approval of a range of industrial products - we did have an impact).

Ah yes, sewage outfalls emptying onto beaches.... none of this EU blue flag nonsense!

I am old enough to remember, the things it did very well were power cuts, 3 day weeks, massive inflation, rubbish piling up in the streets etc.

And unburied dead ....

And the only thing that swam in the Thames, Clyde or Mersey was a rat, and that wouldn't last long before going under.

You can't possibly compare the UK of 45 years ago with the UK of today. That's like comparing post-war Britain in 1945 with the late Victorian times.

The developed world has changed beyond recognition since the early 70s. Globalisation has happened. Transport and technology have opened up the world as never before, especially with trade. If you look at other successful economies, they are all (with the temporary exception of Trump's USA) increasing their regional trading arrangements. The UK is the only one attempting to go backwards. You can't step off the train by yourself, you'll just be left standing alone on the platform.

And the only thing that swam in the Thames, Clyde or Mersey was a rat, and that wouldn't last long before going under.

My memory was that the UK was cleaning up it's rivers (if not beaches) before joining the EEC. However, the project was such a success (salmon in the Thames in the late 1970s) that the EEC adopted it and rolled it out as an environmental standard across Europe. As I noted upthread, a hell of a lot of "EU" initiatives were actually proposed and promoted by .... the UK.

Sorry I didn't know I couldn't ask these questions now.

At the last vote I was in hospital having had to endure a tfmr so didn't get to vote.

I'd have been inclined to vote leave as I see the very worst that the eu has to offer.

I apologise for asking and shall hand my head in the requisite shame for having the audacity to ask .

Thanks anyway.

Have you really been in hospital for 3 and a half years OP?

What exactly do you think the worst that the EU has to offer is?

The day of the vote id lost my baby mid term due to disability.

I didn't really give much of a toss what the referendum result was. Now it appears there may be another vote I wanted to try and get a rounded opinion.

Should have known better really!

Why post then refuse to engage, unless you are a time-waster?

FWIW I think people can and should engage briefly but politely to explain that in 45 years the world has changed. The whole legal framework and the way of doing business in the EU has changed so substantially that it will take a plan, and many years, to leave without doing significant economic damage.

Wanting out is fair enough, but you need a plan to do it, that doesn't harm people and that can win the support of a majority of the country. At the moment there is no Brexit that does this.

Sorry to hear that OP.

I answered your questions straight on. What does the EU offer that you find so bad?

I didn't really give much of a toss what the referendum result was. Now it appears there may be another vote I wanted to try and get a rounded opinion.

Because Brexit is entirely ignored in the media, so it's impossible to get any information that way.

Because Brexit is entirely ignored in the media, so it's impossible to get any information that way.

That's not entirely fair. I heard something it on Radio 4 last year. It was in the Autumn I think.

Yeah, you're right, Museum. I think I heard about that, but, in fairness, it was only for about ten minutes after The Archers.