If there were another Referendum on Brexit...

[lljkk]

What question(s) would you like to be asked, in hope of getting result you want?

I think mine is something like:
Part 1:
Leave
Remain

Part 2
If the majority choose Leave, would you prefer:

Leave ASAP regardless of withdrawal arrangements

Only leave with a smooth withdrawal arrangement including transition period in place

Government said at the time of 2016 referendum that they would honour the result. Cameron even said it was once only opportunity. Obviously confident that the result would be to remain.

Brexit is not the problem, but the way it has been managed. Make a deal first then start Article 50. The 2 years after Article 50 would give businesses both in EU and UK time to plan for the changes.

What we are seeing now is MP's and the two major parties point scoring and looking after their party's interests as opposed to what is in the UK's best interests. 12 days to 29 March and nobody knows what it happening!

Whatever the outcome it will remain an international embarrassment and UK will be the laughing stock of the World. What has happened to once steady ship that was called Great Britain. For from Great at the moment.

We couldn't make a deal until we had triggered article 50 and negotiated our withdrawal. That's how article 50 works. WA isn't a deal. It's an agreement on how we leave. If WA passes then we can start on negotiations on a deal.
What we should have done is delay triggering article 50, find a consensus as to what our redlines were as a nation and then trigger it. And then negotiate a withdrawal.

Someone requested the final outcome of the Sky poll upthread. Here it is.

It's old news and I'm not sure what the fuss is about? It is clear that there is some confusion about what no deal means. There's even another thread about perceptions of no deal at the moment.

Surely Remainers and Leavers can both acknowledge that a minority of the public are confused about this?

In any event - even our divided torn Parliament has managed to agree that No deal is a very bad idea. (It's just rather unfortunate that despite quite a high degree of public and parliamentary consensus that no deal is a bad idea, we will probably do this anyway.)

Thank you Lonelyplanet mum.

{ Clavinova Sun 17-Mar-19 11:15:19
1tisILeClerc
Should be easy enough for you or lonelyplanetmum to link to a Sky poll that you are referencing - it's not my reference. I shall ignore it then.}

Why the hell should we do your homework?

What I don't understand is this:

It is (predominantly) Remainers who want a PV. Leavers are scared of a PV. It's is rare to find a Leave politician or voter who says I'm so convinced I'm right I'm happy for the merits of my stance to be tested. They fight tooth and nail against any further democratic input.

Surely it is therefore in Leavers' interests to acknowledge some confusion between no deal and no Brexit.^^ This confusion can then be used as a powerful justification for no further vote?

Think I just scored a home goal there!

It's like watching a very small child learn to stack bricks for the first time.
The magnitude of the damage that Voting Leave has caused will sink in eventually.

I wonder when remainers will get bored of insulting leavers?
Move on fgs.

Ah, that's right. We are just meanies. So how should I talk to people who want to tank our country with No Deal, @surferjet ?. Support WA, I am happy to make nice. Support No Deal and deal with my scorn.
You support WA, I think, @surferjet .

The magnitude of the damage that Voting Leave has caused will sink in eventually

Everyone is entitled to choose how they vote based on what they see as beneficial to themselves as individuals as opposed to what might be best for; their neighbours, friends, rest of UK, etc...

Leave voters think UK will be better off in the long term. Whereas remain voters have decided that leaving the EU will make UK worse off even though it has not yet happened. Only time will tell.

I say nothing to the No Dealers I know in real life - there are a load around where I live - because I am afraid of them. What they are capable of. What they are prepared to put up with.
On here, I call them stupid, contemptible, unpatriotic shits because that's what I really think of them.
If they supported WA, I would feel less like vomiting when I look at them.

@BeersTonight2000 - it's not about Leave vs Remain any more. It's about No Deal vs anything that isn't No Deal. Including WA.

On here, I call them stupid, contemptible, unpatriotic shits because that's what I really think of them

If that is not the same as saying those who voted remain are superior to those who voted leave what is?

Everything wittyusermane. It’s a horrifying mess that most people had no idea would end up as it has (leavers and remainers alike).
It is literally a national embarrassment.

Everything @wittyusermane SAID!

Everyone is entitled to choose how they vote based on what they see as beneficial to themselves

This is at the heart of politics is it not? Surely people should vote for what is best for the country as a whole.

Being motivated purely for oneself leads to people like JRM, Gove, Liam Fox etc who believe in the survival of the fittest. You can look at their voting records to see the consistent pattern of voting. It's is consistently against further expenditure on benefits,the NHS and state education etc. Their voting record is consistently in favour of increasing tax cuts for high earners and for decreasing disability payments.

Surely people should vote for policies which will help those reliant on the NHS, those using food banks, those reliant on benefits, those struggling? Regardless of whether you personally use or need those things.

{I wonder when remainers will get bored of insulting leavers?
Move on fgs.}
3 years ago it was 'we won get over it' and the catcalling of liars, remoaners and worse.
I don't give a shit how bad life will get for 'leavers' now, YOU have destroyed the UK. What is more sickening is that you have done this and you are not even going to get what you claim to want because you have no plan.
11 days and hopefully the first stage will be all over, so the real extent of the disaster can start to unfold because Brexit hasn't really started yet.

Do people honestly think there will be a second referendum?

And if the outcome is remain do we have a best of 3?!

After a huge percentage defeat the government were allowed a further vote at the same thing.

I really don't see why the people can't have a further vote after a small percentage difference now more information has come to light.

@BeersTonight2000 - I said that about No Deal supporters. Not Leavers. There is a difference.

Isn't there?

I think that David Cameron should apologise for doing something as stupid as holding a referendum and say we are staying in the EU as a prime minister has never been elected who thought we should leave and if you want to leave you will have to vote for UKIP.
He should apologise for all the damage he's done and money he's wasted and get into the stocks for us to throw rotten fruit at him. The government should then stop squandering money on brexit and start funding schools properly.

I'd never insult leave voters but I would argue that whilst all votes are equal, any vote for change carries with it a degree of responsibility that a vote for the status quo doesn't.

mrssunshine of course not this vote would be a confirmation vote on the deal, you know - verification that everyone is happy with it.

any vote for change carries with it a degree of responsibility that a vote for the status quo doesn't

Brilliant, so very true

It’s a horrifying mess that most people had no idea would end up as it has (leavers and remainers alike)

The booklet was supposed to make the risks of leaving the EU clear and simple. Look on the link:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3533380-If-there-were-another-Referendum-on-Brexit?pg=3

Surely people should vote for what is best for the country as a whole

Not possible as voters don't know what all the other voters are thinking at the time of an election or referendum? Take a look at previous results.

Conservatives won the 1979 election. Was that because people thought they were better or were they fed up of labour? Remember the winter of discontent occurred under a labour government.

In 1983 conservatives won by 143 majority. Was that because people thought conservative policies were in the best interests of the UK or was it the feel good factor that the UK people had after UK had won the Falklands war?

Look at what happened after 1983. Destruction of the NUM and trade unions in general. Privatization of national assets such as British Telecom and birth of the fat cats. De-industrialization of the UK and a shift to a services economy that further widened the North and South divide.

Labour won the 1997 general election by a huge margin. Was that because people thought labour was the best option or was it a case of people choosing the least worst party? I would say the latter. Look what happened after 1997.

Gordon Brown sells UK gold at a loss of 5 Billion over the period 1999 to 2002. Private pensions are destroyed. Labour opened the flood gates to foreigners in 2004. Then the most famous of all. The note that said "there is no money left".

From 2010 to 2015 there was a coalition government as people could not make up their minds between labour or conservative based on what they had seen over the last 31 years since 1979.

And so it goes on.

1tisILeClerc

Why the hell should we do your homework?
Usual courtesy - you quote stats and provide a link if asked.

Thank you Lonelyplanetmum
Yes - thanks - I found the Sky twitter feed from the image. Some of the comments beneath the poll point out that Sky's question was badly phrased - it's obvious that some people thought they were being asked a different question.

I'm more interested in the post by Hanumantelpiece

I saw a friend had posted something on FB recently which outlined the 72 'laws' the UK had had 'forced upon them' by the EU. ... ^All of which were innocuous things, to do with food hygiene, and so forth.
So I don't see how those people are in a position to make any sort of informed decision if they refuse to actually look at any information that relates to it. It's a blinkered attitude.^

I found what she was referring to quite easily - someone had linked to the 72 rules (or legal instruments) mocking the UK's objection to them - they were not all innocuous by the way. In the 2-3 years leading up to the referendum, the UK objected to a number of EU spending proposals, one of which (from 2014) was obviously used by the Leave Campaign ;

ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/instruments/overview_en

The Instrument for Pre-accession Assistance (IPA) is the means by which the EU supports reforms in the 'enlargement countries' with financial and technical help.The IPA funds build up the capacities of the countries throughout the accession process, resulting in progressive, positive developments in the region.

For the period 2007-2013 IPA had a budget of some € 11.5 billion; its successor, IPA II, will build on the results already achieved by dedicating € 11.7 billion for the period 2014-2020.

i.e. financial aid to assist the following countries to join the EU;

Current beneficiaries are: Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia, and Turkey.