Westminstenders: Distract and divert. Just close your eyes.

[RedToothBrush]

This morning Jeremy Hunt declared that, 'With vision on both sides we can find a way through that has the support of Parliament and also works for the EU'

Of course this is 18th February 2019 and the UK has yet to demostrate they understand the problem, much less have the vision to solve it. And we leave the EU next month.

It needs to be stressed at this point: DON'T FORGET TO FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS

Everything else is a tactic to make you close your eyes and miss what is really going on. Everything. Brexit looks increasingly like a hypnotist making their subject do ever increasing acts of ridiculousness on stage. Except I do not know if the public or the politicians are that poor sod. It is the magician who uses tricks of slight of hand to make you look the wrong way, whilst they makes all the big moves out of your vision.

There are so many stories that are coming out to try and make you miss what the government are failing to do. Stay focused. We can't ignore all these stories, but understand whether they are really important to the end game too.

A labour split, a march on the 23rd March, talk of a PV, the Brady amendment, the Malthouse Compromise, Cooper-Boles halting no deal?

No we need more than that.

The time for fantasies are gone. Its time to face reality and be pragmatic. The only thing that matters is the approaching cliff. Which we will go over not on the 29th March but in the next couple of weeks. We might not realise the ground disappearing beneath our feet at first. Our momentum as we go forward will carry for a short while before gravity kicks in.

But we can not defy the laws of physics and suddenly be able to fly because we develop magic superhuman powers of vision.

And no one will come to save us either.

Our national humilation will be total, if we don't acknowledge what is coming and stop.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Brexit Abbreviation Thread

Especially given that most of the Tiggers will likely vote with Labour on issues like housing, UC, workers rights etc; it's mostly brexit they won't vote with the leadership and labour MPs seem to vote whichever way they like anyway.

It is fundamental to our constitution that MPs are not party whip fodder, but are supposed to vote according to their judgement

I would be very much against changing the current system, under which MPs can quit their party without a byelection afterwards

It is a totally different situation to the current recall system, which can only be initiated after gross wrongdoing by an MP: quitting their party may in fact be the most ethical decision

e.g. suppose in the next Tory leadership contest, the far right manage to get their man / woman elected, who then announces fully fascist policies
It would be ethical for Tory MPs to quit the party rather than participate in bringing about fascism.

Of course, Labour may be forseeing 1-2 decades of their MPs resigning from the party and are trying to head this off.
A better idea would be to address the causes, so MPs don't want to quit.

As Sky News just said,"the Home Secretary will know that this is a popular move." Nothing to do with the law but everything to do with dog whistle politics

Just as almost all the other politics in this politics has descended to while we suffer the Brexit clusterfuck on both sides of the House

Mother I was wondering where her mother was in all of this - if she was suddenly in an all male house or under grandparental rule (can be completely different generational freedoms) perhaps that was a tipping point. Again, not condoning it but when I lost my mum in my early 20's I wasn't thinking clearly for at least a year. Again as pp have said, I don't know much about the case other than it's bought all of the leavers out on my fb like a rash

Any male IS collaborators who are British citizens should of course be treated the same:

allowed in if they arrive at the borders, then charged with every crime applicable, remanded and hopefully jailed for many years.

I feel only disgust for her, no pity whatsoever
15 is old enough not to be turned on by psychos beheading and burning victims alive

She should be treated as harshly as possible within the law
So should any male IS collaborators and beheader junkies who turn up here.

If you think this is encouraging anti-Muslim feeling now, wait until she helps murder victims in the UK or even just recruits others online
Keeping her under 24/7 watch for the next 50 years will cost 10s of millions and can never be truly safe:
we've seen several people escape from supposedly secure surveillance

So if she returns, let's hope she is locked up for as long as possible first
and of course, her baby should be removed and she should never be allowed any contact

suppose in the next Tory leadership contest, the far right manage to get their man / woman elected, who then announces fully fascist policies

Thought that had already happened?

Motheroffourdragons for you too. I think people are too quick to hear IS and forget there is a person there - as you say, we do better when we show compassion. I'm probably going to be flamed for this but I also feel as a country we are being hypocritical selling arms to countries and warmongering without expecting them to see what we are doing and retaliate. Just because the majority of the British public would like to turn a blind eye to our arms sales doesn't mean the countries suffering our bombs don't know exactly who made and got paid for them. Profiteering from any blood money should be seen as inviting hate. Not saying her Manchester quote was the right thing to do, but if she was seeing death and daily bombings for years she is going to be somewhat desensitised. She needs help and we need her intel and her child needs to grow up somewhere they are going to be nurtured and not weaponised.

jas If ever we get real fascism - e.g. Tommy Robinson ? after Brexit - you'll realise that what we have now are just very nasty, coldhearted hard right policies, but still broadly within international law

imo, some of the ERG are indeed fascists, but - like Trump in the US - even having fascists in power doesn't mean a fascist state until all the official levers of power have been taken over.

Possibly because my late mother came from an Arab Christian minority, my compassion is for those whom IS enslave, behead, burn alive.

Being compassionate towards everyone, indiscriminately, imo devalues compassion towards the innocent,

e.g. Hitler reportedly had a very abusive father, but I refuse to feel the slightest compassion for his evil
Where do you draw the line in dripping compassion everywhere ?

BigChoc personally I feel the point is to break the cycle. All we are doing is continuing it and increasing ill feeling for UK.

Javid should simply have taken and followed legal advice. That is a perfectly sensible and respectable thing to do. Rather than just doing the gung ho thing, in the knowledge that he will probably lose in court. His job is, or should be, to act as a responsible grown up, not to pander to the mob.
I agree that the young woman should be accepted back in the UK, where she should stand trial for whatever crime she may have committed and the child should be dealt with through social services.
This is another example of the UK behaving nastily and irresponsibly in front of a world audience.

mother The police & security services have been unable to stop terrorist suspects even under 24/7 watch ordered by the courts
She is definitely a risk

Of course, that doesn't mean we break international law if she is legally entitled to enter the UK,
but it does mean we shouldn't give her any more than those minimum rights to which she is legally entitled

She doesn't deserve extra rights that other far less serious criminals don't get

lonely What increases anger against the Uk is all the airstrikes, which so often kill civilians too
Those should be stopped

Above all else, stop trying to topple dictators like Assad, or Hussein before him; it's not our business and it is bitterly resented as Western imperialism
Also, it often leads to chaos, mass murder, refugees and a vacuum in which groups like IS thrive

In contrast, giving extra rights to terrorists, beyond what they are legally entitled to, just causes contempt at UK stupidity & weakness.
It doesn't create any gratitude, or stop any attacks

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Revoke Art.50 if there is no Brexit plan by the 25 of February”.

Government responded:

The Government’s policy is not to revoke Article 50. Instead, we continue to work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union, as planned, on March 29th.

Revoking Article 50 would not respect the vote of the British people in the 2016 referendum.

Almost three quarters of the electorate took part in the referendum and 17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union. This is the highest number of votes cast for anything in UK electoral history and the biggest democratic mandate for a course of action ever directed at any UK Government. This result was then overwhelmingly confirmed by Parliament, who voted with clear and convincing majorities in both of its Houses for the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act. Then, in the 2017 General Election, over 80% of people then also voted for parties committing to respect the result of the referendum and it was the stated policy of both major parties that the decision of the people would be respected.

This Government has therefore been given a clear mandate to implement the will expressed by the electorate in the referendum, and to revoke Article 50 would undermine that mandate.

As it is the responsibility of this Government to deliver the exit that people voted for, and as Parliament is clear that it does not wish to deliver a ‘no deal’, we must secure a deal. However, the Government recognises the views expressed by the House that it cannot support the deal as it currently is, and we are now confident that a deal with changes to the backstop, combined with measures to address concerns over Parliament’s role in the negotiation of the future relationship and commitments on workers’ rights will secure the majority needed in the House to leave the EU with a deal.

The Prime Minister has therefore continued to work with Members across the House to deliver on the decision that the British people took in June 2016 and she will go back to Brussels to secure a deal this House can support.

Department for Exiting the European Union

But she herself doesn't seem to be (from what I've seen) a terrorist. As someone who was radicalised here, we need to find out more about how she was recruited and intel rather than make her a martyr for other IS brides. I completely agree re airstrikes/regime changes and everything else - as a country we act appallingly badly with little regard to civilians. My point is I can see how that grows hatred. Focusing on this girl won't solve that at all, just distract from the real issues.

Susan that all looks like a c&p from previous emissions from Brexit Dept or whatever they like to call themselves. Policy...not sure I do remember seeing "we will not revoke A50" but I could be wrong? Sadly so many policies in manifestos are left swinging in the wind I loose track!

Was just coming to post petition response...

I had to laugh at the clear mandate

Awake with stomach pains and was just coming to post the petition update. Unbelievable that it says May is going back to Brussels to secure a deal. What part of no does she not comprehend ffs?!

The Prime Minister has therefore continued to work with Members across the House to deliver on the decision that the British people took in June 2016 and she will go back to Brussels to secure a deal this House can support
But the British people didn’t take a decision, it was an advisory referendum... it was May who made the decision in March 2017.

Honestly the whole thing is an utter mess. And one I don't think will be easily sorted out if she's determined. It will rumble on for a long time and have a polarising effect on social attitudes of the public. RTB
(Wrt Shamima Begum).

...which is exactly what certain cabals would like, I suspect.

Tonsilss Wed 20-Feb-19 00:06:43

Javid should simply have taken and followed legal advice. That is a perfectly sensible and respectable thing to do. Rather than just doing the gung ho thing, in the knowledge that he will probably lose in court. His job is, or should be, to act as a responsible grown up, not to pander to the mob.
^I agree that the young woman should be accepted back in the UK, where she should stand trial for whatever crime she may have committed and the child should be dealt with through social services.
This is another example of the UK behaving nastily and irresponsibly in front of a world audience^

THIS^^.

A thousand times.

The law must be upheld and must be seen to be upheld.
If the law is not upheld and seen to be upheld then IS wins, doesn't it?

More importantly, and more realistically (because IS isn't the direct threat to the body politic that the homegrown nativist Far Right is in the UK) the government needs to stop pandering to the mob and needs to be seen to stop pandering to the mob.

But I fear that this government will willingly and fully consciously preside over the destruction of the only thing that can protect the UK from an unparalleled collapse of civil society - respect for the letter and the spirit of the law and for the incredibly important principles that are its foundation.

I fear this government is deliberately pandering to the mob.