Does anybody still think Brexit will be good for the economy?

[KennDodd]

This was one of the Leave promises.

I definitely think that this is the beginning of a dark period of history.

I was lying in bed last night imagining if we were Singapore. I mean it could theoretically happen. It happened there in 40ish years. They are very rich for the region, almost full housing, doing well.

But they are not the UK. And no, I don't think it could. It would need far-sighted, innovative, clever politicians. And a hard-working, committed populace not reliant on benefits or the state (except for housing). We don't have any of that.

All those people talking about what great deals we were going to get - the rest of the world will be racing to give us fantastic agreements.

Where are the people who said all that crap now?

Don't they feel just a teensy bit stupid?

I'm not sure anyone can claim that Brexit will be good for the economy in the short term as the whole world is in slowdown. However, I do believe that Brexit will be good for the economy in the longterm because more democracy = more prosperity.

These are both stories from the BBC yesterday:

Prices of flats going down:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47223988

Wages going up even though inflation is down:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47224913

In my opinion wages are rising and housing costs are falling partly because free movement from the EU is slowing down. Not everyone will agree with this of course and I realise that free movement has delivered benefits as well as problems.

But anyway, the world is in an economic slowdown, but individuals in the UK are not necessarily getting worse off.

We have a chance to build on this to make the UK a fairer and more prosperous place to live. The prevailing opinion on the MN Brexit boards is that leaving the EU is a disaster. So I like to come on occasionally to put a different point of view.

the previous poster is spouting the typical pro-Brexit bollocks:'We have a chance to build on this to make the UK a fairer and more prosperous place to live.'

Please explain how trashing the economy, forcing big employers like Nissan and Ford to move elsewhere is in any way going to make the UK 'fairer' or 'more prosperous'. It is going to have exactly the opposite effect unless you have a magic job creating Unicorn to hand?

The government's own (initially suppressed) impact assessments show the significant negative effect on the economy.

There is no question about it. No economists other than crackpot Minford have produced a positive outlook. Businesses are already haemorrhaging out of the U.K.

Suggestions that this whole debacle increases democracy are entirely specious.

The current government has done more to challenge and remove normal democratic parliamentary processes than any government in the last 100 years- they've been held in contempt for goodness sake.

This government have suppressed documents, delayed or avoided votes. They've introduced unilateral powers for ministers to make legislation and have resisted meaningful parliamentary debate and vote at every available opportunity. This is not more democracy and will not lead to more prosperity to the country as a whole. It may lead to an even more unequal distribution for a very small number at the very top of the tree, but will lead to long term less for everyone else.

People hold Singapore out as a role model. But Remember Singapore is much much smaller and has one of the worst wealth disparities in the globe.

{We have a chance to build on this to make the UK a fairer and more prosperous place to live. The prevailing opinion on the MN Brexit boards is that leaving the EU is a disaster. So I like to come on occasionally to put a different point of view.}
While it would be nice to think that, you do SERIOUSLY need to address the issue of HOW it is going to happen.
The global circumstances that made the various countries as they are now, is from a time long passed, and the UK can't use force to obtain minerals etc, it has to trade for them and COMPETE against the likes of China that are using vast quantities of resources.
So, the UK has to do something that is unique, highly valued and be able to fight off copying and other aspects that will rob the UK of opportunity.
Mass production has moved to Asia so to compete it must be achieved CHEAPER than Bangladesh/China etc.
Due to distance from emerging and expanding markets the cost of shipping materials in and product out have to be subtracted from the already low cost of production overseas.
Answer these and you have it cracked. I can't see it myself but would love anyone to come up with WHAT the UK can do that is so unique and profitable.
Beware of reading too much into the 'good news' figures at the moment as it is the order books for the end of 2019 that you need to look at.

Read some detailed study. Excellent charts prepared by Oxford Uni researchers show the expected accumulated lost of GDP and impact on young people and the future. It compares a WTO-type deal (which has the most negative impact) and an EEA-type deal which now looks unlikely (which would have the least impact). This reflects the government's own figures too.

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ofoc/pages/167/attachments/original/1540483927/REPORT-latest.pdf?1540483927" target="_blank">https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ofoc/pages/167/attachments/original/1540483927/REPORT-latest.pdf?1540483927

Singapore is not much bigger than greater Manchester in terms of area and has the advantage that the people who can't afford housing don't die sleeping pretty rough because it is not cold. It has a very authoritarian government that on the whole is good for the country but get on the 'wrong side' of the law and you are in deep shit.

Lots of lovely things might happen but the journey from here to there is so damaging and treacherous. And saying it is damaging and treacherous is somehow unpatriotic. Which makes you wonder if it is worth it.

Not sure if the link works but you can google our people our choice...

d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ofoc/pages/167/attachments/original/1540483927/REPORT-latest.pdf?1540483927

In Singapore you will get fined/arrested for chewing gum and being homosexual.

Singapore also has instant access to millions and millions of low paid, low rights workers in Indonesia, Malaysia etc.

UK wouldn't even agree to have ID cards even if it meant being able to return unemployed EU workers to their home nation.

Can't see how we are going to be even a tiniest bit like Singapore.

It's going to be the land of hope and glory again. A country to be proud of. Loads of jobs for British people. Business will boom. The sun will always shine and the unicorn will become our National animal.

The unicorn already is Scotland's National animal . ... first used on the Scottish royal coat of arms by William I in the 12th century.

@lonelyplanetmum they'll add a rainbow to distinguish it

SparklySneakers
Rather than talking crap, how about thinking how it will be achieved.

I think (hope) SparklySneakers was in heavy sarcasm mode.

It would be great if I am wrong but there is no evidence of any benefit of leaving the EU and huge and increasing evidence of the damage it is doing. These are real jobs and real peoples lives which are being hurt.

I was being sarcastic. I'm a remainer who is worried sick about the effects that are likely. Things are bad enough already with businesses leaving the UK or scrapping plans. I dread to think what things will look like in 6 months time, a year, two. The country is in a mess and I am fucking angry about it. I see no solutions except Revoke but that's unlikely it seems.

I suspect that all the rich people would love Singapore as a model

A 'maid' for everything economy - give a maid an attic room and she does everything

Polarised society, plenty of racism and homophobia

I don’t think it’s going to be good for the economy, but I also feel that increasing the population by the size of the size of Scotland over 15 years is also going to have detrimental knock-on effects. I do feel worried, but I also feel that the EU should never had got so tightly entwined without the people having a say, such that we are virtually trapped in it.

Mark Carney now does, based on yesterday's Telegraph

It will be amazing.
We will be able to launder so much more dirty money.
www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/7d134547-5e74-4b7e-a055-133c0e24e275

We have a chance to build on this to make the UK a fairer and more prosperous place to live.

Who, of the present sorry crowd of politicians, has the will and vision to do such a thing?

Visiting Singapore recently, it struck me that even the wealthy live in rabbit hutch conditions. It’s a very consumeristic, dull and claustrophobic sort of place.

Suicide has a big problem with suicides. Definitely not somewhere to aspire to.