Bringing everyone else down with me

[WordsAndWorlds]

One of my colleagues had a half hour rant today about wanting No Deal. She doesn't know which way I voted, and I was interested to hear her reasons so I bit my tongue, stayed very quiet and just listened. This is what she said...

She said that she has nothing to lose through Brexit and ND. She has spent 10 years working but never got into a job that pays enough for the quality of life she'd want- in fact, she's recently moved back in with her parents because after splitting with her partner, she can no longer afford rent alone. She says if she can survive in that living situation and on a low salary, the rest of the country can too for the greater good. We then need to work towards rebuilding the system so that everybody is on a more level playing field, housing more affordable, and a more middle ground standard of wages and types of housing rather than some particularly good and some far worse.

She says if she was a business owner and part of a group of companies where the others in the group were dictating what her company could and couldn't do at the expense of maximising profit and being true to their mission and values, there would be no question about leaving the group and going independent. So it should be exactly the same with the EU. It may be the case that ND is not a desirable outcome, but staying is unacceptable and nothing better has been put forward as a compromise so it HAS to be ND because that is democracy and it would be undemocratic not to leave.

Brexit will decrease the gaps between top and bottom, which although it might mean changes for some groups (groups that might not have suffered for years) it will be better for everyone overall.

The EU is an economic nightmare we will be relieved to not be part of it in a few years. Companies, animals, families, nature you have to adapt or die. The EU is incapable of showing flexibility when needed and this will be part of its downfall.

Thank you dangermouse and snout for answering my question.
Snout when you say inheritance abolished, do you mean no one can leave anything to their children (or whoever they want to leave it to?)
What about farms and properties which have been in the same family for many generations - would they be sold each time their owner died?

Disregarded yes, disenfranchised, no. I have a vote and a voice and I won't stop using either.

If both extremes looked outward at the huge numbers that don't even vote, perhaps we would see some progress.

I agree inheritance tax (increase) would be a great leveller. But it was never a big problem until house prices became so horrific. (Except obv loaded people).

Yes weezol why don’t they vote?

I’m glad you don’t feel disenfranchised and feel like you have a voice. 😊

I just refuse to. On paper I may be, but I pity the fool...

I reserve my anger for those who don't vote. 'I didn't know what it meant' 'I don't know what to do' - Google is your fucking friend.
'I don't have time' What, you don't jave five minutes to register for a postal vote? You can do that sat on the bloody toilet! You manage to vote for I'm a fucking celebrity get me out of here!*

*I may be projecting a bit...

Re: not bringing other people down, the point she kept emphasising over and over was the line about "I've survived in my living situation with very little money and unable to afford property - others can too".

Good job everyone's got parents who are willing and able to let them move back in, eh?

Dappel I’m not ideologically keen on wealth and properties being kept in one family for the very reason it creates inequality. Ideally, I would say that when someone dies their estate goes to the local authority, house becomes available as a social property etc. However, due to the disparity between houses (some people having bedsits while others have mansions) I know it wouldn’t work in practice. It would require all property in the country to have been built to exactly the same specification, otherwise you’re still getting inequality in terms of location, space and facilities. So for a workable solution I would settle for higher inheritance tax rates, a cap on house prices and of course the closing of loopholes that allow the super rich and corporations to evade tax.

I don’t think Brexit is the answer to making any of this happen though!

Thank you for answering my question snout.

You do inheritance tax is already 40%? This mean that if I die after I’ve paid my monstrous mortgage for 25 years and repaid to the banks twice as much as the value of the original loan, my kid would still have to sell it or find somewhere an extra 40%.

Many other countries don’t charge a tax on the dead, and definitely not 40%

It's one of the thoughts that keeps me warm - if I have nothing to leave, the bastards can't tax me posthumously. I shall continue to be poor just to spite the tax man .

It's the I'm all right jack world, that lead so many leavers to think what the heck. Let's have a massive change ..

Most leavers i know are baby boomers, in the ‘I’m alright Jack’ category including PIL and their friends. All retired, living in properties that are worth over 10+times what they paid for them, have final salary pensions, lots of savings, inheritance from their DPs and second properties. They voted based on nostalgia for a time long passed and based on stuff they read in the DM. They paid little attention to the possible consequences for other people including their own families who might suffer as a result of Brexit.

The Leavers I know are in the 'I'm alright Jack' category as well. Older, with their own houses and jobs.

It is the young & economical shaky in my family that voted Remain.

They paid little attention to the possible consequences for other people including their own families who might suffer as a result of Brexit.

Or themselves when the currency devalues and their pensions are worth less and they struggle to get social care in old age.

I don't think that has occurred to them yet.

Most Leavers I know are between 25 and 40.
Remainers between 21 and 85. Sadly, the oldest has now died.

Penny is starting to drop with PIL - the thought of empty shelves in Waitrose and M&S has them worried.

My PIL is the only (alive) leave voter I know. He is a typical white wealthy middle class home counties retired man. He has had a successful career and retired late 50s with mortgage paid and a couple of london buy-to-lets. I have spent a long time wondering how he thinks his life would have been better if he had to work outside the EU for his career. I have asked him why he voted leave but he didn't answer, I think it was just for a laugh - living vicariously. The other leave voter I know died shortly after the ref. Elderly, loving, passionate, inquisitive and a gentle soul, but unfortunately he believed the lies told by the leave campaign.

I come from a ex mining town in yorkshire (I left a while back though) - I don't know any leave voters from there. The only people I know from there though are below 35ish years old. I wish remainers would stop characterising 'Northerners' as universally leave voters.

BTW, Brexit won't decrease the gap between the top and the bottom. I find it genuinely sad that lots of economically disadvantaged people were tricked into voting against their best interest.