Westminstenders: Waiting for Sanity

[RedToothBrush]

We could be waiting a long time, but that's what we have to wait for as that's what the EU is waiting for.

The EU has requested we expand on our plans for 'alternative arrangements' with regard to the backstop.

We need to do so before the next HoC vote on 14th Feb. The EU see no point in shifting their position before than. And the UK will struggle to provide the info the EU want before then. So there is now some doubt as to whether the vote will go ahead as planned.

About a third of the Cabinet now believe that Brexit will have to be delayed due to legislation not being ready for exit date. However we don't have power over this and we might still exit without it.

There is no Brexit related business next week in the HoC to prevent pesky amendments. The recess has been cancelled but MPs have been told its OK to go on their ski holidays so it's just a PR stunt.

Meanwhile No Deal is in full effect as businesses trigger their exit strategy in the absence of certainty. No Deal is reality for many even if we do have a last minute deal...

We are all about to get poorer. As that's what we voted for.

Elements - those numbers are out there somewhere, there was a chart circulating on twitter. I think the figure is 4 million British living abroad. Obviously there is a large error margin in that estimate.

LeClerc - translators round here are often Dutch and other Europeans who have married locally. The lady who translated our birth certs is Australian with a French husband. We have a small translation business but only translate the other way (FR to EN) and don't do sworn translations.

BigChoc I agree with your post of 20:21:35.

The reason Dutch people speak such good English is that so few people in the world speak Dutch. There's us in the Netherlands, some in Belgium and then at a pinch those in South Africa who speak Afrikaans (which is different but as a Dutch person I can speak and write with someone who is communicating in Afrikaans and be understood). So we all learn English and other languages so we know what much of the rest of the world is saying. English is compulsory all the way to school leaving age as well. If you take the Dutch equivalent of A-levels, you will be made to take Dutch and English.

The system of only taking three A-levels makes compulsory MFL very, very difficult, alongside the shortage of teachers and the cuts to education.

May very much hit a chord among a significant section of the public with her
"Citizens of Nowhere"

She made a permanent enemy of me for that expression and her obvious dislike

I've actually worked more years total in Germany now than in the UK
and I like Germany very much, how it is organised and works well

So yes, she meant people like me

She made a permanent enemy of me for that expression and her obvious dislike

Same here in ElementsHouse (perhaps we should call our home PeriodicTable?).

I don’t get that. British people ARE known to be immigrating everywhere. They DID and DO emigrate very easily.

Yes they do.

Now throw the class and education level issue into the mix. I suspect the UK has a particularly distorted and narrow demographic mix, compared to other countries, particularly once you remove pensioners retiring to Spain.

If you take the Dutch equivalent of A-levels, you will be made to take Dutch and English.

But the same is true in France - all students must take French literature plus a minimum of one MFL (two MFL in the academic "general" stream) for their baccalauréat. It doesn't mean they can all speak English, far from it ... though students from "good" lycées will often have pretty good English. (DD is in HE on a selective course in Paris and of her cohort about a quarter are fluent in English).

The 1 million+ Brits refers just to those living in the E27 / EFTA countries

From that graphic with 6.8% Brits being abroad, there are about another 4 million Brits living in non-EEA countries

TheElementsSong, not sure if this answers your question?

select-statistics.co.uk/blog/eu-freedom-movement-numbers/

And yes citizens of nowhere and queue jumpers REALLY angered me too.

Pop culture is through English, that has a hugely positive effect on the take up of English, too.

Opportunities ARE closed to certain groups because of our educational set up. As social mobility has closed down Brexit emerged. It is not coincidence.

I suspect the UK has a particularly distorted and narrow demographic mix

I guess this is the crux of the matter. That - by and large - the demographic that is internationally-inclined and willing to emigrate, and the one that isn't (and are correspondingly aghast at people immigrating), are practically non-overlapping sets of the Venn diagram? Opinions?

However, remember polls - the same polls on the same people - show that British people want FOM to end wrt E27 citizens coming to the UK,
but want to retain FOM for Brits to move to the EU after Brexit ! 😂

The definition of entitled CFs

Elements my holiday wi-fi is very quick and nifty!

Sayyadina Thanks, that is a really fascinating set of graphs! I love graphs. Can you tell?

I am probably wron (nothing new) but I always thought that when the French went 'colonising' most places the people the colonised became or had the chance to become French citizens whereas the British made them subjects with very inferior rights.
Reunion island is a 'department' of France for example and they joined in the Gilets Jaunes protests. (it's the tiny volcanic island about the size of greater Manchester in the Indian ocean).

One thing I love when I go to Europe is watching TV. Yes really. Especially if it has subtitles. I saw recently that English levels across the board are better in countries which have subtitles compared to dubbing. From this point of view the UK is always disadvantaged. We just don't view this as normal and our demand is for strictly English language television and music.

I also found, again derailing hugely (sorry!) as this is migration from everywhere to everywhere, this gigantic set of data from the UN. The links to the graphs don't seem to work, but you can download the actual datasets to Excel. They're very large datasets. This is my idea of fun.

www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/migration/data/estimates2/estimates15.shtml

I have to use the subtitles when viewing American series. My children laugh at me, but I say all the actors mumble/speak too fast.

That'll include those Brexiter pensioners who feel confident they can remain in Spain and even retain healthcare
because Spain needs their money and won't mind another ¼ million elderly people on their health system

No, it'll be because EU law is pretty strong on guaranteeing rights for longterm residents, even when they are arses.
Healthcare however will only be continued for long if the UK continues the current EU system of refunding the host country for pensioner care.

born I've had to use subtitles for years because of a hearing disability
Now that my visual disability has got much worse I need BIG subtitles !

This is why I only watch TV literally about once per year and can't really answer when pp ask about German TV

TheElements - have fun with this world map

TLDR: Canada, the UK and Germany are the big Western world emigrators. India and China top the numbers for people who move overseas, which is hardly surprising given their large populations and incredible variation in living standards. I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that most of those leaving Cuba, Puerto Rica, El Salvador etc aren't highly paid economic migrants working for international blue chip companies either.

TheElementsSong
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but I think you need to get out a bit more!

Oleannas You have made my day! Going to be up half the night looking at all the combinations!