Westminstenders: Waiting for Sanity

[RedToothBrush]

We could be waiting a long time, but that's what we have to wait for as that's what the EU is waiting for.

The EU has requested we expand on our plans for 'alternative arrangements' with regard to the backstop.

We need to do so before the next HoC vote on 14th Feb. The EU see no point in shifting their position before than. And the UK will struggle to provide the info the EU want before then. So there is now some doubt as to whether the vote will go ahead as planned.

About a third of the Cabinet now believe that Brexit will have to be delayed due to legislation not being ready for exit date. However we don't have power over this and we might still exit without it.

There is no Brexit related business next week in the HoC to prevent pesky amendments. The recess has been cancelled but MPs have been told its OK to go on their ski holidays so it's just a PR stunt.

Meanwhile No Deal is in full effect as businesses trigger their exit strategy in the absence of certainty. No Deal is reality for many even if we do have a last minute deal...

We are all about to get poorer. As that's what we voted for.

Yes it was the Simon Garfield books. They were fascinating.

Yes that was Nella Last wasn't it Destiel. I have an amazing letter written by my mother after their house was bombed. Her description of grabbing my sister and trying to get out through the dust is extraordinarily vivid. No wartime nostalgia in our family.

Nowordforfluffy - your cross-stitch pieces are lovely. My mum did Danish cross-stitch embroidery (having been taught by her favourite relative, her MIL ) and taught me. Dad still has lovely hangings of flowers up on the wall and beautiful place mats that she made.

Yes, I've read that book, missclimpson - it did make me think of MN (slightly fewer goady fuckers though).

Just heard my first 'we're leaving the EU on 29th March, check if your business will be affected, even if you think it won't be' ad on LBC. I wonder if that mythical gov.uk 'Brexit preparedness' website is ever actually going to make an appearance?

So I was told repeatedly this weekend that beacuse JLR (and other manufacturers) built factories outside the UK before Brexit, this means that they would have left the UK anyway. It was their plan all along.

Also my worries about the trustworthiness of our government because of Brexshit was swept away with "Well no one trusts bloody Italians or the Spanish, so we would not want a trade deal with them." I just mentioned that they are part of the EU, so we cannot have a separate deal with them. At which point I was laughed off. (facepalm)

BCF
How much has 'schweinhund' helped you in your professional role in Germany. Or a simpler question, have you ever said it?
Maybe a 'Brexit revenge' could be that Europeans refuse to speak English in the presence of English.

Perhaps Brexit will give more incentive for young Brits to take their MFL GCSEs more seriously?. MFL have been a casualty of education cuts here. DS will go into STEM in some shape or form and wanted to do German GCSE to compliment this and because of family heritage. It’s been scrapped along with something else he wanted to take.

DD already said her and EU born partner who came here last year will be going after her degree. DS said whilst in Berlin last year that if everything goes pear shaped with Brexit he will consider living abroad. Have just been filling my full of regret leave voting neighbour in on this as she’s been like a Grandmother to them both. Feel so sorry for her, she is clearly so upset about it all and actually said ‘but we didn’t know what we were voting for’, words I didn’t actually think I would actually hear from anyone.

BCF when DH did a project in Portugal in the mid 1980s he had three stock phrases, one of which was “is your dog rabid?” I think the other two involved churrasqueira and the other beer.

dd1 - speaks fluent German
dd2 - teacher in a shortage subject
dd3 Physicist learning French
ds - mathematician

Their Leave voting Grandad dotes on them.

DS has just spent the afternoon playing with another little boy.

They spoke not one word of the others language. They didn't need to. They understood each other fine. Had a great time. DS wailed when we said we had to go.

It just sums up everything to me.

Everything else is just bullshit we are taught. A four year old is infinitely wiser and smarter than many a 40 or 60 year old.

@NoWordforFluffy Gorgeous embroidery!

BigChoc It's not so much that there aren't many sectors using English for communication around the world, but that (gross generalisation I know, sorry) many Brits feel like they can't/daren't make the leap to moving abroad, because of their lack of other languages. Hence this resentful perception of an "unfair" pincer movement in which they see foreigners freely moving here, and think that "we" can't move there. I also perceive this as the root cause of the sullen resentment and paranoia when I see people grumble about "streets of people speaking " etc.

The problem with foreign language teaching in the UK is that at GCSE level it's barely more than holiday language (travel tickets, food stuffs, talking about your family etc). You need to get into A Level and degree level to become properly conversational in a language. If you counter that with Germans at the very least (I did an exchange trip in the 4th year / Year 10 as is now) they're taught to speak and read English properly from a very young age. The students of my age were reading Shakespeare, for goodness' sake. So it's a failure in the syllabus, not necessarily the failure of a student to take it seriously. I got a B in German (no A* then) and my conversational skills were very poor in comparison to my German counterparts.

And thank you re the cross stitch. I can't tell you how many unpickings went into each one! I'm not a natural by any means.

DD is in Austria. Her team is led by an Italian with Spaniards, Brits, and folks from all over the EU ~ so they speak English.
She is on Erasmus, dozens of languages ~ so they speak English
In Nantes a lovely businessman in a lift asked us to help him with his "globish"
In Croatia the lady in the shop said that learning English was the way for her kids to make money - and we chatted to them for the week.

English will always be the language of commerce and diplomacy
because the English thesaurus is 4 times thicker than that of any other language

that will outlast Brexit
but the power of English will move outside the UK

Actually NoWordForFluffy the new GCSE is much harder. I have been helping GD1 with multiple tenses including the subjunctive. Nothing like the old GCSE especially higher level. The problem is there is a massive shortage of MFL teachers and it is getting worse. It isn't much better here in France though. I have done quite a bit of coaching over the years and it is all very book based and some have been told, "if you don't know if it is right then don't say it".

The problem with foreign language teaching in the UK is that at GCSE level it's barely more than holiday language

That's definitely true! DH worked in Germany many years ago (I was working in London at the time), and his GCSE German was entirely inadequate for him to do all but the most basic interactions. It didn't affect his work (research scientist) but he found stuff like shopping in the market, buying travel tickets, etc, really difficult. Eventually he became fluent, he really liked living in Germany and we've always said it was a shame that he didn't stay.

Conversely, I grew up in another country and in fact English is not my mother tongue. We were expected to achieve an genuinely useful level of fluency in our language options in order to pass our exams. Outside of formal education, people in my birth country take it for granted to also have at least a basic grasp of several languages/dialects just for normal social interaction. Nobody thinks that having multiple languages is special or difficult.

Ta1kinPeace
Forgive me but it is 'silly head' time of the day.

{English will always be the language of commerce and diplomacy}
That's diplomacy out of the window.
{because the English thesaurus is 4 times thicker than that of any other language}
Which bit is 4 time thicker?

I am sure English teaching is better in the cities and towns, but out here it really isn't good and they struggle to get teachers.

@Ta1kinPeace because the English thesaurus is 4 times thicker than that of any other language
You clearly do not speak Hungarian

Elenade
The Hungarian dictionary is thick, but I cannot find an image for the modern Hungarian thesaurus.
Why does Hungarian have so many synonyms ?
English is because of empire after all

LeClerc
English will always be the language of business and diplomacy
because
you can tell somebody to fur cough and dye in utterly polite words
repeatedly
and then screw them over again and again
using variants of English that other languages just do not have.

Makes my work a LOT more fun

PMK

{LeClerc
English will always be the language of business}
I know, I have been doing this on a limited scale for 40 years!

I am sure English teaching is better in the cities and towns, but out here it really isn't good and they struggle to get teachers.

Are you in France? MFL teaching can be a bit variable but my kids have had excellent teachers Including mainly bilingual English teachers and native Spanish teachers (ordinary provincial schools).

My Keep Fit class of elderly French people dances happily along to "They All Kick the Bucket in the End", "Just fucking go wild" and other strange "English" language songs. They have no idea. 😀