Do you think cancelling Brexit will grow the far right? Or has the Brexit referendum itself already grown the far right?

[KennDodd]

Chris Grayling has effectively said that we must go through with Brexit or it will give rise to the far right, is he implying the far right will go away after Brexit is driven though? I actually think the opposite is true, that pushing through Brexit will put more power into the hands of the far right. I voted Remain though and, I know confirmation bias exists and try my best to watch for it. I don't remember so much open hostility towards immigrants before June 2016 .

I was also trying to think of an example in history were ground has been given to the far right, or policy put in place that they are calling for, to the detriment of others (immigrants) and this has eased a situation and the far right agitators have melted away. What do others think? Does Brexit fuel the far right or satisfy it?

Shocked by Mays use of language today "catastrophic and unforgivable breach of trust in our democracy"

Why doesn't she come straight out with it and say Treacherous Remainer MPs should be attacked on the streets?

A vile individual.

MPs and MSM should be very careful over their use of inflammatory language.... in a minority Government (which is 100% her fault) Parliament is asserting its authority as she has little...which was what the 2016 was partly about.

The only way I can see for the 2016 referendum to be overturned is by another referendum (I know this isn't legally the only way) and I really can't see that happening. If Remain won I would struggle to see how that could be described as undemocratic or an affront to democracy or however they want to describe it, especially given that if the 2016 referendum had been binding it would have been declared void anyway because of the illegality around the Leave campaign.

I think were fucked whichever way we move. As a poster said upthread, there is no outcome that will make leave voters happy and not feel like they are the victims.

In which case we do what's right for the country. Revoke Article 50 and get back to sorting things out instead of pussyfooting around

I find it really interesting that no-one is worried about how remain voters will react if 'no deal' is forced on them. Until now, their protests have been very calm, good-natured and peaceful. I suspect that's because no-one knows (still) what leaving will entail, so we are still hoping for a fair and not-too-damaging outcome. It is not beyond reason, however, that people who did not vote for any of this shit will be absolutely livid if a no deal is forced on them. Hearing Grayling threatening a rise in the far right if Brexit is blocked just beggars belief when the 48% have been expected to suck up whatever is thrown at them and listen to endless bollocks about 'the will of the people', as if they were not also people.

I agree twofingers

From the start it was remain lost suck it up we are leaving with no thought of any sort of compromise or working together

And now we potentially have to do go no deal because some trouble makers might cause some problems if we dont

Anyone who has read anything about the aftermath of the first world war, and the 1930's, will have seen some clues as to how this works.

I have been doing a lot of reading about this period lately. One reason why Hitler was popular was because he brought work. I don't see Brexit bringing work, although a Dictator could come along after a few years and promise this.

The rise of the far right is a symptom of underlying issues and resentments which have been ignored and belittled by mainstream politicians for far too long.

Too many people feel that their legitimate concerns about austerity, lack of good jobs, stagnant wages, falling living standards, post- industrial decline and widespread perception that uncontrolled mass immigration is part of the problem have been treated with utter contempt by politicians and media elites in London.

In order to prevent the far right rising further, those grievances have to be tackled.

I agree in that our far right is nowhere near that of other countries. They are a big voice now, but not in power in any form comparable to other countries.

But we certainly have the potential for it - since the vote there’s been a shift in people expressissing views I’ve not heard for years. And however Brexit pans out, these voices will increase.

I live in a brexit area. The social media posts are awful. People post really nasty and unfounded stuff and I’ve been verbally abused for calling them out. I then look at their profiles , they leave them public, and their content is unbelievable. If I had those views I’d keep my social media v private.

However, these sort of views must have been around before the vote but people felt muzzled, I guess.

We’re in trouble now, whatever happens. I always felt my community was not my ethnicities but rather where I live. don’t feel that way now.

Peregrina that is true once Hitler was in power. The debate at the moment feels like Weimar. The myths, the mistrust of politicians, the strong narrative based on emotion, the lack of logic.

The far right start anything violent and they will end up in prison.
It is incumbent upon all of us to keep them in the dung heap where they belong.

I agree in that our far right is nowhere near that of other countries. They are a big voice now, but not in power in any form comparable to other countries

Is that because they have a voice in today's Tory party? Windrush, Grenfell, Universal Credit (only being modified because they've no party majority to push it through) refusal to take any migrants and finally, doing something few right wing parties in europe are wanting - leave the EU.

Read the manifestos of AFD or FN, they are not a million miles away from what we've got right now.

Extremist leaders with brains (a fairly small subset) know that through stirring slogans and encouraging some 'less than stellar' thugs to do the actual criminal damage/intimidation can get a long way (Hitler, Stalin, and so many other 'leaders'). Normalising disrespect and destruction is very 'effective' and damaging to society.

Anyone can puck up a stone or stick and smash windows and destroy property and it is ingrained in human nature to 'lash out' if sufficiently constrained, especially if conditioned by 'unicorn' promises and are then told that X, Y or Z is stopping you getting the unicorns. It takes a lot more effort to go forwards than backwards.

I agree it's more like Weimar Germany than the Nazism of the 1930s. How far do the parallels stretch?

You talk of extremist leaders with brains, with the thugs doing the work: a lot of leading Nazis were university educated - Himmler, Hess, Goering, Goebels; and Heydrich had been a naval officer. Compare that with Brexit, Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg have all been expensively educated to a high level.

Another thing to note is that extremism rides the crest of existing waves. E.g. there was already a eugenics movement, supported by doctors and leading thinkers before the Nazis came to power - they just took it to an abhorrent conclusion.

I really don't think the fascists are just waiting to swoop to power. I think there are right wing scum bags who are trying to channel people's anger for their own purposes. There are left wing scum bags trying to do the same. And disaster capitalists looking to make a quick buck.
It isn't great but it isn't the signpost to fascist takeover.

It's sign posting extremism that could be left or right.

Politicians made promises and let us down we need a clear voice.
Appeal to emotions nationalism, strength, sovereignty, power.
Return us to our true place in the world.
Make people respect us again.
Blame that group of foreign looking people who are taking our jobs.
We need jobs and food - we will give them to you.
Poverty is the fault of not you.
The economic crisis is the fault of corrupt politicians there is an easy solution.

Sound familiar? It would if you lived in Berlin in 1929 or Basingstoke in 2019.

My take on this question is broadly as follows...

The actual "far right" in Britain is, IMO, pretty damned tiny, and wields almost no influence in politics at the moment. There is a much larger group that people who disagree with them wish to (and do) label as the "far right" in order to discredit them and the people that vote for them.

Would there be a resurgence of UKIP if Brexit were cancelled? I think that it is very likely that a "UKIP" type party could accrue a large number of votes at a subsequent election if this happened, but they would not win any substantial number of seats. That doesn't equal a "rise of the far right."

And for all the claims on here, the Conservative party aren't "far right" in any sense at all, they just aren't. Claiming they are is absurd.

Would people who voted to leave be unhappy if Brexit were cancelled? Yes I'd bet they would be.

Some people within the Conservative party are far right, and I don't see any point in denying that.

And for all the claims on here, the Conservative party aren't "far right" in any sense at all, they just aren't. Claiming they are is absurd

Do you class AFD and FN as far right? as i said, look at their manifestos and compare to the Tories or the young conservatives who at a University, daubed themselves in swastikas.... just the young having a bit of harmless fun eh?

The conservative party, even under Thatcher was a bastion of moderate politics compared to the most recent version of the Conservatives.

@Peregrina, who? are you talking there about party members or MPs?

So far as the MPs go, the farthest right that I can think of would be people like John Redwood or Bill Cash, both "No Deal" devotees I believe.

Talking about both: you mention a couple of MPs. Some members were out and out fascists. Maybe they all defected to UKIP?
I have had dealings with many Tories and I would say although I don't vote the same way, a good many are decent community minded people. I think they would be horrified if they stopped to consider the way the party has lurched to the right. I imagine they would describe themselves as one nation Tories.

peregina- I'd agree with you there. There doesn't seem to be many of those left among the MPs though.

Gordon Brown called somebody who said something bigoted a bigot.

I don't recall the woman in question as being bigoted or saying something bigotted. She was a Labour supporter who asked a question about genuine concerns on immigration which millions of people had concerns about. It was a concern that got ignored by New Labour and was one of the reasons people voted to leave in the referendum.

Nope. She said something bigoted about immigrants.

Whether it was one way or the other, the worrying thing is that at the time it was 'shocking' but now that sort of behaviour is commonplace by citizens and MPs. How far is the UK falling?

The brexit vote gave bigots the permission to say out loud things they'd always thought but knew were unacceptable. The thuggery of about 100 pro-brexit supporters, compared with the peaceful march by 700,000 anti-brexit supporters speaks volumes, and it is appalling that Theresa May and other Tory MPs are virtually saying we have to cave in to these thugs because if the people are allowed to "thwart brexit" it will cause civil unrest.

No. We need to restore our civilised democracy which was high-jacked by the cheats and liars of the Leave campaign and the right-wing gutter press.