Do you think cancelling Brexit will grow the far right? Or has the Brexit referendum itself already grown the far right?

[KennDodd]

Chris Grayling has effectively said that we must go through with Brexit or it will give rise to the far right, is he implying the far right will go away after Brexit is driven though? I actually think the opposite is true, that pushing through Brexit will put more power into the hands of the far right. I voted Remain though and, I know confirmation bias exists and try my best to watch for it. I don't remember so much open hostility towards immigrants before June 2016 .

I was also trying to think of an example in history were ground has been given to the far right, or policy put in place that they are calling for, to the detriment of others (immigrants) and this has eased a situation and the far right agitators have melted away. What do others think? Does Brexit fuel the far right or satisfy it?

I think the referendum enabled the far right by putting some of their aims into the mainstream.
The plans for appeasement arw just shocking; let's give this aggressive group what they want because we fear them and screw over everyone because they are mostly reasonable.

Well UKIP would have a purpose again wouldn't they??

Sadly, I think the divisions we have seen as a result of the referendum are tiny compared to the divisions that will exist if Brexit does not happen. Hope I'm wrong though.

I've been criticised on here for using this expression : lie down with dogs and you get up with fleas.
It's people with genuine concerns not distancing themselves enough from the right wing scum that has given those twats licence to think they are entitled to be in the middle of the debate.

Far right movements are much stronger in Poland, Italy, Germany, France etc where people feel ignored by the authorities. So there is a risk that the far right will get stronger in the UK if the government ignores the referendum result.
However bellini is absolutely right that people with genuine concerns must continue to distance themselves from "right wing scum". It's also important not to make the Gordon Brown mistake of calling ordinary people bigots.

Not if handled properly. The underlying feelings of resentment need to be addressed, the value of immigrants championed, the benefits of EU membership presented in a more balanced and credible way. I strongly support revoke (driven by a cross party working group which I'm also optimistically rooting for) followed by a calm period of balanced debate about what government does relative to what EU does. I don't think revoke should mean that we will not Leave, just that the debate needs to be far better. We do need to avoid further integration at all costs though, and once we have revoked, we need to influence the EU to reform.

There is scope for it to fuel nationalism but everything depends on how government (and every thinking individual) handles it. I'm optimistic that we could all play our part to influence this to the good.

The far right groups in Europe aren't calling to leave the EU in significant numbers.

I think the rise in the far right (and left) was always inevitable after the crash and the following austerity.

Brexit fanned the flames but the far right is rising in most developed countries. What to do about it? Lord only knows, the Northern Powerhouse is a good idea but it needs to be more than just words.

Austerity leads to the rise of the far right and the far left. Poverty always leads to extremes.

Austerity (in part) lead to Brexit - how many threads do we get where leavers say they voted Brexit because they wanted change?

When extreme groups arise it's always best to hold your nerve. They will implode. They grow quickly attract support in seemingly alarming numbers. And then when they get seats in a legislature after a few years it becomes apparent they are nutters.

I think it would take a crystal ball to know for sure, but perhaps backing out of Brexit on account of our being a terrible idea would actually put people off far right ideologies. I mean it's all very well being anti-immigration for example because you think the alternative would be better. But when we've come this far down the isolationist path, realised it's a total cluster f*ck - and ultimately changed our minds, no-one can really claim that everything would be so wonderful if only we just closed our borders and stopped pandering to the EU. What with that being demonstrably wrong given that we will have tried it!

I think we should back out. I didn't until very recently but I really do now. I even think it might help dampen the appeal of the far right; at least no-one will be under the impression that there is a viable right wing alternative, because there isn't!

Brexit fuels two kinds of right wing politics. Liberalism and the far right you describe. Liberalism is something we lack in Britain and worth encouraging. The far right on the other hand has always been present. I’m not sure that it is true that brexit has fuelled it at all. It has however given the far right a platform and not going through with brexit will agitate the far right and will continue to fuel it. If brexit is done and dusted the far right will fade back into background when there is no longer a platform to decry the abtibritish eu immigrant loving middle class or whatever it is they don’t like. Hopefully brexit will leave a legacy of liberalism but I doubt it. Thdbritish population is too dependent on the government. Short of major economic or demographic changes spanning decades I think Britain is too far gone to become a truly liberal country.

@Ratrolypoly but the EU is isolationist in and of itself. I don’t think onelind of isolation is much better than the other. Surely it’s worth sacrifice the slightly wider isolation of the EU in an attempt to open up to the world.

{ but the EU is isolationist in and of itself.}
Which is a criticism you can make about many countries or trading blocs. The USA and China definitely are and Russia has it's own way too.
The EU does at least through it's inherent diversity seek to reduce it's isolation.

Remember what Cummings wrote. Referendum real Q was (Cummings designed Leave campaign to be like this) "Do you like the Status Quo or not?" The far right feel empowered and want MoRE, not less.

Gordon Brown called somebody who said something bigoted a bigot.
Anyway, we should never pander to the shouty far right. They are, in this country, a bunch of cowards. Witness how they targeted female Anna Soubry and pretty much ignored the male MPs saying the same. How brave?
And I speak as someone who was singled out for attack by the BNP's website. Remember them?

I think it was the moment that Gordon Brown got crucified for calling a spade a spade that was the start of the slippery slope.

Cancelling brexit will vastly increase discontent among the people who are "desperate" for no deal, some of whom post on here. They invariably have a massive victim complex, even when they are "winning". Losing would be experienced as an existential threat.

But the problem is that there is no scenario in which these people don't end up feeling that they have been victimised. In a chaotic Brexit, leavers would position themselves as victims of the remainers who failed to dig for Britain. May's deal would be experienced as a failure to meet the brexit mandate, with leavers the victims of remainers in government, the civil service and civil society; ditto for Norway +, with the added indignity of not getting rid of the foreigners they hate so much.

There is NO outcome that does not lead to an increase in discontent.

Of course it will.

There will be some very angry people out there.

Theresa May has been torn between a rock and a hard place from the very beginning. As we all know she herself was a remain campaigner.

I think if it isn’t delivered there will be huge uproar.

But do you think if Brexit isn't delivered the uproar will result in widespread civil unrest/demonstrations/riots a la French yellow vests?

I'd like to believe not, but I wonder about the thousands of angry comments and upvotes blindly supporting no deal/leave at any cost eg on the Daily Mail. Also my impression was the pro-leave petitions (to be debated tomorrow in parliament along with the pro-remain/stop Brexit petitions) had massively more signatures.

As is usually the case when there is unrest, the 'smart' ones read the tealeaves and depart the area. Businesses that can move will and leave the 'also rans' behind. Europe is probably crying out for entrepreneurs and investment.
The BBC technical department had a 'clear out' of in house engineering services in the mid / late 1980's. The more enterprising set themselves up as 'consultants', charged more money for the work they were doing and some even kept their desk on BBC premises.

But do you think if Brexit isn't delivered the uproar will result in widespread civil unrest/demonstrations/riots a la French yellow vests?

The French unrest isn't "widespread" in the sense that "large numbers of people are participating". In the whole of France yesterday, there were about 80k people in total ie barely more than 10% of the number of people who demonstrated peacefully at the last people's vote March (and that 80k was split between a number of towns).

It's destructive because of the type of people who participate - the sort of people who don't have much compunction about throwing paving stones at police, setting cars on fire, beating up cameramen or threatening to pull female journalists out of their cars and rape them. It doesn't need that many of these people to creat havoc.

I think the numbers would be far smaller in the U.K. where there is a much smaller "protest culture". Basically it'll be the EDL plus some younger, more middle class, white men who have been radicalised on-line. Depending on what they think they have to lose it could be quite nasty but nothing the police couldn't handle.

The Yellow Vests causing the massive damage in France are not the 'originals' who started 9 weeks ago. The 'security person' for the rioting Yellow Vests in France being exposed as a Russian might suggest something. I don't think Mme Fleur would be setting light to her neighbour's house, or trashing neighbour's cars.

The Yellow Vests causing the massive damage in France are not the 'originals' who started 9 weeks ago.

Some of them are.

The reason that the movement has been infiltrated by the the far right, the hard left and anarchists is because the "originals" have made common cause with them.

I agree strongly with those saying that austerity and poverty drive the rise of the far right.

Anyone who has read anything about the aftermath of the first world war, and the 1930's, will have seen some clues as to how this works.

The power of the far right will mostly be decided by the policies which are continued or even adopted, continue with austerity and that is what will happen. I happen to think that the UK leaving the EU will shrink the economy, leave a few very winners and a lot of people whose prosperity will be much reduced and ripe to be manipulated into supporting who knows what, without the EU to blame.

A centrist coalition might find a way though to avoid such a disparity in fortunes, starting by postponing for as long as possible any thought of leaving the customers union and single market. Ideally remaining within the EU for the foreseeable future. It will not however, immediately recover the jobs in many industries which have been exported to the mainland. Sigh.

I keep posting riots depend on the weather.

A hot summer means a high chance of riots - whatever happens in regard to Brexit.

If it pours down no rioting.

I think the referendum has done that already. Well, the referendum and the irresponsible msm. I don't think there would be widespread fascist uprisings if Brexit was cancelled because I don't think most leave voters are violent fanatics: passionately disagreeing with them about Brexit and thinking that the majority of pro leave arguments are bullshit doesn't translate to me thinking they would turn to violent extremism if they didn't get their way.

Mousse is right. What broke the riots last time wasn't actually policing it was a change in the weather. Rain in summer is the policeman's friend.