Eastern Europeans leaving.

[RomanyRoots]

Hi, I just wondered if this was widespread and if many people know of Eastern Europeans leaving the UK.
We have good friends who are Polish and they have moved to Scotland and have heard my dsis in another area say likewise, several Polish families have returned.
We don't have many in our area, but my dsis has a lot of Romanians in her workplace that seem to be staying.

Meh. In a few years our kids will all be off to Poland to find work! Poland now isn't the same place it was 20 years ago.

it is such a shame, especially when they have built lives here and paid their way.
I'd heard that it was due to lack of confidence in the UK.

Alexander
My dd wants to study in Germany too, although only Y10 has set her heart on it and is knowledgeable about where she wants to study.

I don't buy this that they take others jobs, my dsis isn't well qualified so works in warehousing as do others like her. Her job isn't reserved for Eastern Europeans, it's just they are the ones who apply with the likes of my dsis.

Language is interesting isn't it? Why use of the expression hardcore, one could say sad, ill, or poor, or tragic or pathetic, exploited, victims or homeless. But why hardcore? Why no sympathy for the few Romanian beggars who must be pretty desperate. If they were say drunken UK Borns in a London train station or Senegalese beach sellers in Spain would they also be described as hardcore? Are all beggars hardcore or just Romanian ones?

I think its well-worth losing jobs, losing investment, screwing the economy for years, losing our rights of free movement and jeopardising the GFA if we can get rid of the hard-core Romanian beggars, right.

This article focuses (among other things) a lot on the perceived divisions created by the seemingly large community of EEuropeans.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/the-way-the-eu-treated-the-uk-opened-my-eyes-bolsovers-brexit

Ok, fair enough you might think, but then scroll to the bottom and you will see percentage of non UK born residents is 2.6%. That's hardly substantial, is it? It means the other 96.4 are all native Brits.
It's like calling barely 1% of our national budget sent to the EU 'vast sums"- how about focusing on the other 99% of the budget and how they're spent? How about addressing the real issues, of which the number of polish supermarkets isn't one.

It's not just Eastern Europeans who are leaving - it's people from Germany, Sweden, Denmark, France, Netherlands and so on too.

The interesting thing is that the people who have come here to the UK have taken jobs that Brits do not want or can't do. Jobs that require specific language skills for example. And fruit picking, factory work and basic hospitality jobs. The vast majority of EU nationals working in the UK are in high-skilled jobs.
These jobs have always been available to British people - but if the British businesses cannot find anyone in the UK to take those jobs, then what are those businesses to do?

And if we're going down the "TOO MANY" route, then it's worth keeping in mind that EU immigration levels are lower than non-EU immigration levels. But as politicians have said, the immigration levels are unlikely to change much because of Brexit - and if mass immigration is such a massive issue, why have the UK governments not done anything to control it? It's perfectly possible to control, even while in the EU.

What is likely to happen is that the UK will still keep the door open because British business need foreign workers to take the available jobs, but the British people who want to move to European countries will find it far more difficult in the future.

But it is simply not fair to blame people who are coming here to work - they are coming here because they are fully entitled to do it, and because the jobs are available. If they didn't come here to take the jobs, the British companies would struggle to find people to take the jobs, and it would impact the companies negatively.

Yes I have a few European colleagues who have returned home. One colleague is leaving the Uk in Feb with a position lined up in Holland.

A friend of mine felt so unwelcome she left straight after the referendum result and is now happily running her own business in her native Albania.

I know one family, dd1’s year at secondary, where the father worked for a bank here in uk, who have just moved the office to Frankfurt, taking about 50 jobs with them. The family jumped at the chance to move before Brexit. That’s less tax paid into British coffers.

Another polish family in my younger dd’s form also moving to Scotland interestingly.

Many we know are going back. It's not about jobs here, it's to do with the rising cost of living, which will be even worse after Brexit. The value of the pound is also so crap it isn't as lucrative to work here on minimum wage to send money back to family. Balanced against the cost of living......

At least they can go!

Dh asked a Dutch former collegue who following a glittering career now teaches her niche subject at the highest level what she is going to do.

Her opinion was that she can walk into a job anywhere in Europe so she will probably go.

So UK students like my dd (she used to teach dd) will miss out on the expertise of people like her.

I believe the Polish economy is doing pretty well these days and so given how unwelcome EU immigrants feel here at the moment theyre are plenty of reasons for Polish people to think they'd be better off going home.

Of course, we need immigrants to keep our economy going. This was well demonstrated by the PMs commitments to recruit additional NHS 40k additional nurses and 6k additional doctors yesterday - we don't invest very much in training in the UK so these will most likely come from overseas.

So Polish people will simply be replaced by other immigrants from outside of the EU. Which is fine with me but depressingly hilarious for all those that voted leave because of immigration and are likely to dislike non-white immigration even more.

From the World Bank...Poland's growth massively outstrips ours even before Brexit bites and they have low unemployment and actually need people. Of course in the UK we like to think of ourselves as superior so still carry on the old ideas that somehow Polish immigrants need to be here because the UK is so much better than their home. It's not true and hasn't been for some time!

"Poland’s economy continues to perform strongly. Real GDP growth is expected to reach 4.7% in 2018, driven by domestic consumption and accelerating investments.
Unemployment at slightly above 4% is the second-lowest rate in the 28-member European Union (EU). Poverty and shared prosperity indicators continue to improve in light of surging private consumption that is supported by a tight labor market and government social programs.
The three main challenges ahead for Poland are a shortage of labor in the economy, a structural weakening in public finances, and the upcoming political calendar."

The politics in Poland is a bit suspect, but I have no idea how much this impacts on average Polish life.

I think we need to acknowledge that the impact of immigration, whether EU or non EU, is complex and varies massively from community to community. I also think we need to acknowledge that people can be concerned about the impact of immigration on communities without necessarily being racist.

Londoners living next door to German bankers and French patissiers have a very different experience of immigration to those living in deprived communities such as that described in the Guardian article. It may well be that the overall amount of tax paid by EU immigrants outweighs the amounts taken out in state benefits etc. but if those taxes are not redistributed to poorer areas experiencing high levels of low skilled/non skilled migration then those poorer areas are net losers from migration. And that explains why so many of them - often areas with high numbers of non EU migrants - voted to leave.

It is also simplistic to say that because someone is born in the UK they are do not count when assessing the impact of immigration. Being born in Britain does not automatically confer citizenship. And where communities are dominated by one large immigrant group, children born there will not learn English until they start school, will return “home” for a marriage partner and in some cases their loyalties will lie with the country their parents or grand parents came from. All of this impacts on those living along side them.

Shutting down the debate by calling people who make these points racist, facist, reactionary, ignorant etc just exacerbates the feelings of alienation that many British people now have.

So @Henrietta55 does any of this actually make you realise you're wrong?

EU migrants shown to be bigger net contributors to the economy than native born people

Polish economy doing brilliantly well and unemployment there being very low

Any change in opinion at all?

One of my Polish friends moved house recently and went to register with a doctor - the receptionist said she couldn't allow it until she provided proof of her earnings because she wasn't British. This is bullshit and not a requirement of the NHS. She went to another doctor and registered no bother.

^It should be a requirement to show proof of earnings. Would stop the health tourists

They moved here 6/7 years ago and dd wonders how long they will be allowed to stay.

If they have been here that long, they should apply for settled status. That's not too costly.

My social group is largely Spanish and Italians. The ones who have been here over 5 years are applying for settled status or have applied for citizenship (including me). Others with highly qualified jobs, like GPs, are doing very little. Their attitude is " if you don't want us here, we'll just go somewhere else"

williteverend

Yes, I agree with your comment above.
My dsis is in Crewe and she says there are lots of Eastern Europeans and at her work there were lots of issues, language and social expectations being the biggest barriers.
She says there is so much racism but the cohort at her work happen to be far from friendly and well mannered, so they are despised by the British workers.
There is good and bad in all societies but some people would just rather be racist.
Dsis had to show the women how to use sanitary bins, sit on the toilet and keep the toilets clean.
Shit was smeared on the walls and as the only female on her shift that wasn't Romanian, she was left to report incidents and ended up having to teach them basics.
Not all Romanians are like this, the same as not all British are perfect.
I can see why in certain areas people do think badly of certain groups, but it doesn't make it right.

{^It should be a requirement to show proof of earnings. Would stop the health tourists}
So what threshold of earnings would you put on anyone turning up needing treatment?
A UK citizen living on the street or in and out of 'cash in hand' jobs, where to they keep their paperwork?

I would like to go and move to Scotland or somewhere in the EU, but DH's health needs a different climate to gorgeous Scotland and only speaks English so we will stay
I am originally EU, just don't feel welcome anymore.

I think the anecdotal tales on here are a yet another example of things that never happened listed by brexiteers.

The article about Bolsover, and then the actual number of immigrants in the area show the actual problem.

My next door neighbours, family at the DCs' school, bloke I work with, all gone or going to their Western European country, we're struggling to recruit due to Brexit.

The story I provided is true, I had to talk dsis around, as it's all she knew of Romanians, because it was all she saw.
She still is regularly angered about the behaviour of those at her workplace, but at least I got her to see that others will behaving very differently.

Yeah, yeah, Romanians don't know how to use sanitary bins or keep toilets clean.

Cause like Romania is a really backward country.

Load of clap trap.