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MNHQ

MNHQ here: should we support a Citizens Assembly as a way of breaking a Brexit deadlock?

250 replies

RowanMumsnet · 10/12/2018 10:39

Hello

We've been asked whether Mumsnet would support the idea of a Citizens Assembly to try to bridge the divide within the UK electorate over what should happen next with Brexit, and address what's looking like a deadlock in Parliament .

Current polling seems to suggest no majority in the country at large for any one Brexit outcome, from May's deal to a second referendum to no deal. (Here are YouGov's figures on May's deal from a few days ago and here's another set of YouGov figures appearing to show that no current proposal has majority support). Inasmuch as anyone knows anything, the conventional wisdom seems to be that there's also no majority in Parliament for any of the possible ways forward.

Citizen's Assemblies aim to be neutral forums for participative decision-making. (You can see the Wikipedia definition here.)

The Republic of Ireland set up a Citizens Assembly as part of the process that resulted in the repeal of the 8th Amendment to the Irish constitution, contributing to the recent referendum decision to change Ireland's abortion laws.

For Brexit, the proposal is that an assembly of 500 citizens (from a longlist of 10,000 people drawn from the electoral register) would be randomly selected by a polling organisation to be demographically representative of the UK electorate. The Electoral Commission would facilitate the process, and a non-voting Chairperson would call experts to give evidence from a variety of perspectives. The aim is that the Assembly would take place within the space of a week towards the end of 2018 or the beginning of 2019, and that its recommendations would be passed to Parliament for a vote.

A previous Citizens Assembly on Brexit was held in 2017: you can see the summary report of its recommendations here.

We'd be interested to know whether you think this is something MN should support - please let us know what you think (and if you're an expert on constitutional conventions please feel free to contribute Grin)

Thanks
MNHQ

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 10/12/2018 23:44

Weren't we supposed to get a special Brexit coin? Let's toss that!

superstarburst · 10/12/2018 23:48
Grin I think the Brexit coin should have a picture of a sinking ship on the back
bpisok · 10/12/2018 23:59

super - unfortunately it would have the sinking ship on both sides of the coin.
We can't please either side from an ideological perspective.
The cold hard facts say remain
The wanting to stay independent says leave

The age old story of head over heart 💔

ginghambox · 11/12/2018 00:21

Oh look all the usual remoaners have jumped on this. So no do not support it.

MattFreisCheekyDimples · 11/12/2018 00:40

But was it not the case that article 50 had to be triggered before negotiations with the EU could begin? Am I wrong on that?

It would have been a good idea, though, to have at least established what kind of Brexit was technically possible (i.e. not putting us in breach of the GFA) and politically prudent (i.e. not trashing the economy or the NHS), and where (if at all) the areas of electoral consensus lay, before involving Brussels. As it is, because we went into negotiations with no clearer idea of what Brexit meant than, uh, Brexit, all we've accomplished is to have a very vicious national argument in full public view of the entire world. And now time's run out and we still haven't even agreed amongst ourselves what we want. Hardly surprising then that we haven't got it.

Hofuckingho · 11/12/2018 00:48

No way would I support this.

caringcarer · 11/12/2018 02:57

I don't think it is a good idea. We all have to live with consequences so all should be given equal say. That was what referendum was for. It is up to democraticly elected MP's to carry out will of the people.

Kezzie200 · 11/12/2018 03:15

I doubt it would have any real teeth. So would just end up being an expensive focus group.

That in itself isnt a bad thing but it shouldn't be bigged up to be something its not.

WhatIfs · 11/12/2018 03:47

MPs should do the job they are very well paid to do. Hmm

jophie80 · 11/12/2018 05:00

The only panel with credibility would be a panel of academic experts in the various fields and a few non party affiliated lawyers. Any other panel would simply be a farse as it would contain a bunch of randoms (a bit like the current government, who everyday seem to realise something new that was clearly obvious to intelligent academics and lawyers alike, like yeah Dominic Raab Calais is a freaking important border crossing!)

So as that is unlikely to happen, I just the prime minister do the honourable thing and resign, and we hold a general election, I am voting for Caroline Lucas - a person with reason, good morales and clearly a good grasp of reality too!

Luvacuppatea · 11/12/2018 07:32

Awful idea.

BoyMeetsWorld · 11/12/2018 07:35

Doesn't sound like a true Citizens Vote at all, if only the select few represent the masses. It's a no from me.

Oakenbeach · 11/12/2018 08:15

How would it work in terms of reaching a decision....Would this assembly vote on agreed deal? Who would draft the agreement? Would we expect them to negotiate on our behalf? Would
they need to elect a leader amongst themselves?

Or is this naive idealism thag expects Doris from Norwich and Harry from Wolverhampton to all rub along in a nice friendly collective and solve Brexit with two pages of straight-talking simple A4 with a nice cup of tea to celebrate.

Gonzales27 · 11/12/2018 08:17

Definitely a good idea

1tisILeClerc · 11/12/2018 08:45

There are only 3 options available so it does not need a focus group to talk about it but it needs to be decided which of the 3 options the UK will take.
Cameron and the Tory party have put the UK in a corner, not the EU's doing. The UK has to decide which of the 3 directions to take, left, right or down. It is the rest of the world, not the EU which is preventing the UK going up.

Augusta2012 · 11/12/2018 08:54

How would it work in terms of reaching a decision....Would this assembly vote on agreed deal? Who would draft the agreement? Would we expect them to negotiate on our behalf? Would
they need to elect a leader amongst themselves?

The idea is that they would come up with a solution which the organisers would then pressure the government to accept.

Or is this naive idealism thag expects Doris from Norwich and Harry from Wolverhampton to all rub along in a nice friendly collective and solve Brexit with two pages of straight-talking simple A4 with a nice cup of tea to celebrate.

I took part in one of the pilots for this assembly in my home city. In my opinion, Open Democracy already knew what the outcomes they wanted were, and they guided the assembly to reach them.

For example, in my local area we had already had a referendum on a regional assembly and an elected mayor, these were resoundingly rejected by 78% and 67%. However Open Democracy (who favour more layers of government) presented the Citizen’s Assembly with what was, in my opinion, highly selective information with a massive slant towards ‘yes’.

So when the Citizen’s Assembly voted, lo and behold, they voted in a clear majority for yes to both.

And we do now have them in a slightly altered form from the original referendum’s proposal. We weren’t allowed to vote on them this time, it was just imposed. How much that had to do with the Citizens Assembly I’m not sure, but what we ended up with does look startlingly like the proposal the CA made

Basically Open Democracy is a tool of one of the richest men in the world to pressure and lobby governments into complying with his agenda and doing what he wants. The Citizen’s Assembies are a smokescreen for that because they are led to agree with exactly what he wants so he can then present it as ‘The will of the people’. But I don’t think there is any question that if they didn’t reach the outcome Soros wanted, the assembly would be mothballed, the results never published and he certainly wouldn’t press for them to be legislated for if it wasn’t what he wanted.

Basically, if you’re in favour of this, you’re in favour of rich men using their money to manipulate the political process and undermine democracy.

Augusta2012 · 11/12/2018 08:55

I doubt it would have any real teeth. So would just end up being an expensive focus group.

This isn’t a state run thing. The money is coming from Soros, not the public purse.

jasjas1973 · 11/12/2018 09:59

Basically, if you’re in favour of this, you’re in favour of rich men using their money to manipulate the political process and undermine democracy

Sorry but what exactly is new about this?

Arron Banks, Mogg, BJ, Trump, Clintons, Blair not to mention Murdock Black, and various other media owners over the decades "it was the SUN that won it" all very democratic and above board..not.

1tisILeClerc · 11/12/2018 10:36

And the 3 multimillionaires who donated millions to the leave campaign complaining the other day that the UK hasn't left yet.

TheRealJoseph · 11/12/2018 10:41

Will this new "talking shop" get the same amount of pay & perks that MPs get new?

TheRealJoseph · 11/12/2018 10:42

now not new.

WhatIfs · 11/12/2018 10:51

Sounds like the Doris and Harry will enter the Hunger games and require lifelong body guards.

No from me.

ethelfleda · 11/12/2018 10:55

It gets my full support!

abacucat · 11/12/2018 11:22

The fact that politicians were so shocked by the vote to Leave shows how little they actually understand their constituents

Totally agree with this.

vorpent · 11/12/2018 11:35

I think it's a good idea.

For all those saying this is what MPs are supposed to do, well yes, but they're failing aren't they? They have too much skin in the game.

Assuming this assembly was run in a transparent fashion, and that weve got a good, proven method for ensuring a representative sample, it might help move us forward. I dont think anyone's saying we wouldn't take the assembly's findings back to parliament for debate.

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