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Brexit

Westministenders: The One Where We Finally Get A Leadership Challenge?

987 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2018 22:50

Tick tick tick.

What do we think?

Yes? No?

Another week of wtf-ing at British politics.

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Motheroffourdragons · 19/11/2018 10:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 19/11/2018 10:51

Corbyns playing for the GE

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2018 10:53

mother I was referring to the situation of May passing the WA - with some Labour MPs helping
So long as that happens, we can survive without any other bills before or after

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2018 10:59

DD demonstrating yet again what an ignorant fool he is ?
Or just lying

https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/11/david-davis-there-has-long-been-an-alternative-to-this-discredited-draft-deal-its-the-canada-style-plan-that-tusk-and-barnier-offered-us.html

"If we need to leave with no deal and negotiate a free trade agreement during the transition period, so be it"

BUT
AS YOU SHOULD KNOW HAVING BEEN THE FUCKING MINISTER IN CHARGE

Without a WA, there will be no transition period

DGRossetti · 19/11/2018 11:04

I think it's slightly different for Corbyn to suggest renegotiation, compared to anyone in government Hmm It's the equivalent of asking for directions and giving the answer "well, I wouldn't start from here."

Ultimately Corbyn has had no part in the negotiations. Theresa May made damn sure of that. So if he's spinning a subtle "we'd have done it differently line" then he's quite entitled to.

Again, the idea that maybe Brexit should have been given to a cross-party committee, or a National Unity government sounds eminently sensible.

In fact, this appears to be the first time Corbyn has actually said something to hold the Tories to account.

SusanWalker · 19/11/2018 11:06

I know BigChoc - they keep saying ditch this and have Canada +++ without acknowledging that they can't have Canada with a backstop too. Some of them are thick as mince but some of them are saying this on purpose IMO to confuse the electorate and let us all fight like rats in a sack until we default no deal. I think some of them want no deal but pretend to want Canada.

Somerville · 19/11/2018 11:13

Third paramilitary-type attack in NI in three days. www.irishnews.com/news/2018/11/19/news/man-shot-uo-to-six-time-and-then-beaten-with-iron-bars-in-derry-punishment-attack-1487905/
Earlier this year it was reported by PSNI that 2017 had seen 101 shootings or beatings by dissident republicans (about 45%) or paramilitary loyalists (about 55%). That was a 60% increase over the previous few years.
This year, by my reckoning, we’ve had more than that already. Tensions are increasing so badly with all the political turmoil.

DGRossetti · 19/11/2018 11:15

Tensions are increasing so badly with all the political turmoil.

And, of course, there will be some who will use this as an excuse to pursue their own agenda anyway ...

antimatter · 19/11/2018 11:19

@SusanWalker typical post truth reality is being create , that by repeating lies people get confused and majority are switching off, because you have to be very strong to keep reminding yourself that those are lies

Thegirlinthefireplace · 19/11/2018 11:19

A cross party unity government is the only solution that has any chance of a sensible outcome IMHO. But how does one get one of those? Serious question. GE with no party majority therefor requiring cross party coalition?

antimatter · 19/11/2018 11:30

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Senior Eurosceptics plotting to remove Theresa May are this morning fairly relaxed about the 48 letters.

They take the view that even if they don't come today, the prospect of the meaningful vote will sharpen minds.

The letters will come, they say. It's just a matter of time.

prettybird · 19/11/2018 11:32

Anyone else watching May's performance at the CBI thinking that the questions are plants? Hmm

PostNotInHaste · 19/11/2018 11:36

Fired off email to MP this morning after local Facebook page alerted me to his article in the Telegraph:

‘You never know quite why you are summoned to see the Chief Whip. When I was, I feared I had said something wrong. And yet, after a meeting that lasted little more than a few seconds, I was invited to become the Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) to Dominic Raab, the then Brexit secretary. Immediately, I accepted. I must hold the record as the PPS who has served for the shortest time. Less than 48 hours later, the PM held her Cabinet meeting, which resulted in Raab resigning. How careless of me to have lost my boss so quickly. Regret it? Not one bit. Trust your instincts.
And what do my instincts tell me about the Prime Minister’s deal? They tell me to stop. To read. To look at the detail. I am, after all, a lawyer by training. But when I do, all of my worst fears are confirmed. The reality is that Mrs May’s deal may be even worse than we had been led to expect. For me, Brexit is simple. I believe our laws should be made in Westminster. It is a question of sovereignty. As to the deal, I needed to be persuaded of two things. Firstly, that any transition is time limited and that we can get out of it. Secondly, that it maintained the UK’S integrity. In the Commons, the PM did not shy away from hard facts. It was pointed out that the protocol gives the UK a choice either to implement the backstop or to seek an extension of the transition period. She confirmed that it would be a matter for negotiation with the EU. That is not good enough. I have not been aiming for “no deal”. My preference was, and remains, a comprehensive free trade agreement. In any event, how terrible the phrase “no deal”; from here on in, we should call it “a Clean Global Brexit”.
There is a still chance that a free-trade agreement is possible. But unless and until the EU is ready to treat the UK with respect, we must redouble preparations for a Clean Global Brexit, on WTO terms.
That’s my advice to Mrs May and anyone who wants to be the next PM. She said that colleagues “must do what they believe to be right”. This echoes David Cameron, when he told MPS before the referendum that we must vote with our heart.
There is no doubting the PM’S courage, stamina and sense of duty. However, sadly, she does not appear to believe in Brexit. There is still time for her to change tack. If not, we need a leader who will. One with vision who can take this country into the future, unafraid of a Clean Global Brexit.
Michael Tomlinson is MP for Mid Dorset and North Poole’

I’ve pointed out to him the EU has been incredibly patient in waiting for his party to decide what they wanted and the first time this k8nf of happened was July, to say about the EU not being respectful is purely rhetoric aimed at his readership. Also that the Health Minister has said he can’t guarantee people won’t die, that I’m still awaiting his reply on previous letter I sent asked for reassurance that he can 100% guarantee Dorset residences will have no disruption to insulin supply. Pointed out whilst there remains even the tiniest chance of people dying it is immoral and unchristian to go along No deal or Clean Global Exit as he has decided to call it (don’t really have the words as to how I feel about that!

Also pointed out that the ERG are in danger of becoming scapegoats for Brexit and he showed misjudgment last time round by backing Loathsome and to consider very carefully his political future . Feel better having sent it though I know he will ignore it. We were a swing seat in 2015 but Lib Dem for ages before that so although he has a healthy majority he could as easily lose it again. But I think he’s arrogant enough to think he’s safe.

RedToothBrush · 19/11/2018 11:41

Your 11.40am Graham Brady watch update:

Sky News @SkyNews
Tory backbench chairman Sir Graham Brady says he would first tell Prime Minister Theresa May if he receives 48 no-confidence letters.

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RedToothBrush · 19/11/2018 11:42

He's left the house.

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Tanith · 19/11/2018 11:46

I think these politicians are doing what they’ve got away with for a very long time: refusing to take “No” for an answer. They will not listen to anyone who does not agree with them.

It doesn’t matter how many times people scream at them: “They will not negotiate!!”, they will be deaf to it and will carry on regardless as though that option is still on the table for the simple reason that it’s a technique that so often works for them.

It’s rather fascinating to watch them trying to use it on each other Smile

HesterThrale · 19/11/2018 11:55

An interesting piece on Woman's Hour this morning. Does Brexit have a gender?... will women suffer more? etc. etc.

I thought the anti-EU spokeswoman came up with little more than the usual soundbites.

Listen from 17.17 for the full intro, or 2 mins later for the actual interview.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00017q2

Thomasinaa · 19/11/2018 12:03

Corbyn is a cynical bastard. What he says is such complete nonsense - how can anyone be taken in by it? He must really despise the electorate.

SusanWalker · 19/11/2018 12:03

I think some brexiteers are very toddler like.

I want brexit (stampy foot)

It'll cause food shortages.

No it won't (stampy foot)

Yes it will

Well I don't care. I don't like food anyway (pouty face).

All dressed up in adult language.

Motheroffourdragons · 19/11/2018 12:04

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DGRossetti · 19/11/2018 12:05

A cross party unity government is the only solution that has any chance of a sensible outcome IMHO. But how does one get one of those? Serious question. GE with no party majority therefor requiring cross party coalition?

An interesting theoretical question. But a diversion of resources Grin.

The Tories wanted to shape Brexit. Now they can own it. I can understand the reasons why it's not really been the case, but every time Labour have been asked about Brexit, they could simply have said "ask the Tories. This is nothing to do with us". Although I concede that given the UK media bias, that would be spun to make it their fault. I mean look at the headlines over the years:

Marie Celeste: Was Corbyn there ?
Did Corbyn support Guy Fawkes ? Effigy on bonfire sports anorak.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand: Did Corbyn plan assassination that rocked Europe ?
JFK: Was Corbyns "allotment" a scale model of the grassy knoll ?
Lucan exclusive. We ask: what did Corbyn know, and when did he know it.

SkinnyTrinny · 19/11/2018 12:10

Corbyn is a cynical bastard. What he says is such complete nonsense - how can anyone be taken in by it? He must really despise the electorate.

People like myself that bought it, eventually over time stopped buying it.

I predict another hung parliament, no better deal and a further increase in national debt if there is another general election.

Somerville · 19/11/2018 12:11

I can’t work out if ERG are genuinely quite far away from 48 letters, or they’re so very close that Brady trying to give the impression that they are far away to scare off the nutters who are still considering submitting one.

DGRossetti · 19/11/2018 12:12

Corbyn is a cynical bastard.

No. He's a politician. Just like any other. He's not the Messiah, nor ever was. Even if he genuinely want what's best for Britain, he want's the Corbyn flavour of what's best for Britain. In that respect he's no different to Jacob Rees-Mogg, whose flavour of what's best for Britain is what's best for Moggy.

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